Nothing less than the right to self-determination

If all the parties of Kashmir dispute reach a consensus, then independent Kashmir is also a possibility. But nothing less than right to self-determination is acceptable to us and accession to Pakistan would be conditional. Syed Ali Shah Geelani in an exclusive interview with GK senior correspondent ZULFIKAR MAJID.

How do you view present crisis in the state?

Sometimes our enemy does something which harms us in short term, but in the long term that is beneficial. Same happened here. The state government transferred 800 kanals of forestland to Shrine Board on the instructions of New Delhi. But the grace of Almighty Allah it awakened people of Kashmir and hundreds and thousands of people are on the streets demanding freedom.

Did it provide impetus to the ongoing freedom struggle?

Definitely. Any nation who wants to achieve freedom should first realize that we are slaves. When people realize that their life, property, honor and dignity isn’t safe at the hands of oppressor, then people fight for their rights.

Whom would you blame for the present crisis?

If you look at the history of J&K you will come to know that the leadership has always ditched people of J&K. On July 13, 1931, our 22 people sacrificed life while fighting against Dogra rule. In 1932, Muslim Conference came into existence to safeguard these sacrifices. But in 1938, MC was divided and National Conference created. The excuse made to divide MC was that it represents only Muslims while Hindus are also living in the state. But that was not justified, as in that period government was of Hindus. They were in administration, police and army. They had no problems. It was the conspiracy of Indian National Congress. They knew that India would achieve freedom from British and after that there should be someone who would give Kashmir to them and they created Sheikh Muhammad Abdullah.

But my question is regarding present crisis, not the past.

See, if you will forget your past, you will fall in quagmire where from you can never come out. Past has direct impact on the present. Had we not been occupied in 1947, there would have been no wars between India and Pakistan. No country would have acquired atom bomb and beg before USA. Whatever present crisis we have, it was because of the past. When militancy broke out in 1990, it created fear among Indian troopers in Kashmir, which no one can deny. There was sense of upper hand. But in 1996, Farooq Abdullah came forward and became Chief Minister with the help of Army. There is no difference between Kuka Parray and Farooq Abdulla. Kuka Parray was created by the Army and Farooq Abdullah was also made Chief Minister by the Army.

Do you mean that NC is responsible for every problem of Kashmiris?

NC is the main accused and is responsible for every misery of Kashmiris. I’ve said it in the assembly before Sheikh Abdullah.

But you always say that NC, PDP, Congress and other mainstream parties are equally responsible for the present mess?

Yes, all are responsible, but NC figures first

When Action Committee Against Land Transfer was formed, it announced that after SASB land transfer issue will be sorted and that it would fight against what it called illegal occupation of 8 lakh kanals of land under Army? What happened later?

Their job was done. Rest of the issues are political in nature. ACALT had representatives from Traders Federation, chamber of commerce and they can’t interfere in political issues. For basic issue, political parties will take care. Regarding Hurriyat unification proposal, what is the latest on that? Talks are on. Three-member committee from both the sides is discussing unification proposals.

Is there any timeframe?

There is no timeframe. Our stand is based on principles. Till people of J&K aren’t given right to self-determination, our struggle would continue. Outside this, accepting any proposal is to weaken our stand. From March 23, 1952, talks have been held on Kashmir at least 130 times. But it yielded nothing. If now we will start bilateral talks with India, it will be futile till it accepts disputed status of the state in clear terms. And till Disturbed Area Act and Armed Forces Special Powers Act aren’t revoked, we won’t talk to India.

Isn’t Hurriyat (M) ready to accept these conditions?

Our stand is based on the principles. In past they Hurriyat (M)) started bilateral talks with India and Pakistan without seeing the consequences. Without analyzing Musharaf’s four-point formula on Kashmir, they accepted that. In future, there should be no scope for bilateral talks and only right to self-determination should be the basis of our struggle.

Is there any proposal from Hurriyat (M) for the unity?

There are no proposals and they are ready to accept our formula. But we are yet to reach any conclusion.

Do you think a united Hurriyat would be more effective in highlighting the Kashmir issue in international forums?

If we will remain steadfast on our stand, it would be more important. Hurriyat was united for 10 years from 1993-2003, but couldn’t deliver properly.

What was the reason?

Ideological differences. Apart from that for 10-years India didn’t give much importance to united Hurriyat for 10 years. India’s attitude is rigid as they think they can occupy Kashmir by force always. In such a situation resistance forces have to take every step carefully.

From the past several elections, you have been vigorously launching boycott campaign. But several people say Geelani himself fought elections under Indian constitution?

I defend my decision before people and Alhamdullilah they accept it. When I fought elections, people used to vote for developmental issues. Congress, NC and other parties were strengthening Indian occupation in Kashmir. We used to make people aware that pro-India parties seek votes in the name of development, but in assembly they are working against Islam. Vote had same power that time which later bullet had. We fought elections on two principles. We projected Islam as way of life in comparison to Socialism, Communalism and Secularism. And during election campaign we used to highlight Kashmir issue. Even in assembly, I used to talk about the Kashmir dispute. We never talked of perks and privileges during election rallies and in the assembly, but about Kashmir issue.

Is Geelani Sahib receiving the pension as a former MLA and how would you defend it?

It is not your question, but created by Indian agencies. When a government employee retires, pension is his right. Similarly, an MLA who spends 10 or 15 years in assembly has the right to get pension.

But when you say no elections under constitution of India, how would you defend your decision?

(Smiles) You can say when cause is so sacred and high profile, then a person should prefer it over perks. For your information, I’ve stopped taking the pension from July 2005 despite it being my right.

Separatists frequently call for strikes which affect the common masses. How would you defend the decision of strike calls?

Nation, which is engaged in a struggle for freedom, has to give sacrifices. You can’t keep everything intact and also achieve freedom. When India was fighting against British, they too offered sacrifices and strike calls. In freedom struggles, sacrifices are a must. In the present situation, how can you show your resentment?

One more accusation against separatist leadership is that they didn’t allow their children to join militancy. Instead their children and relatives either are settled aboard or are holding good positions in the state government?

(Smiles) You can’t forcibly ask anybody to join militancy. Till someone isn’t willing to join, he can’t deliver.

You have been advocating for UN resolutions and tripartite talks but now even Pakistan says that UN resolutions are obsolete and there is need to show flexibility. Your comments?

Despite being a colony of America this time, Pakistan overall is an independent country. But we are salves and we have to decide what we need. We have to see what is best for Kashmiris. Pakistan or its leaders have no right to give roadmaps on Kashmir.

Pakistan Peoples Party co-chairman, Asif Ali Zardari recently stated that Pakistan should forget about Kashmir for a time being and leave it to next generations.

He can forget, but we can’t. We aren’t dependent on their roadmaps.

Greater Autonomy, United States of Kashmir, four-point formula, integral part of India, jugular vein of Pakistan, independent Kashmir. Between all these options do you have any other practical solution for the settlement of Kashmir issue?

Nothing less than right to self-determination which is peaceful, democratic, viable and very much a practicable solution. Everybody wants that J&K shouldn’t get divided on regional or religious lines. How is it possible? If you will solve Kashmir through talks, you have to apply give and take formula. In such a scenario state would be divided. To keep the geographical identity of the state intact, it is most essential that people of J&K should be given the right to self-determination. And we have time and again said it that we would accept the decision of majority.

New Delhi often accused that separatist movement in Kashmir is being sponsored by Islamabad?

Most of the times, they used to say it about me that I am pro-Pak. But I never accepted dictations from Pakistan. I’m not talking about General Musharaf regime only. When I was Chairman of APHC in 1998, Shamshad Sahib was Pakistan’s representative to UN, and he had given a statement that Pakistan represents the sentiments of people of J&K and whatever decisions they would take, Kashmiris would accept. When I was asked about it, I rejected the statement and said that we have not given them this right.

Of late, you have been talking about independent Kashmir as one of the options.

I’ve been saying it for long that accession with Pakistan would be conditional and it won’t be a merger. Similarly, I’ve said If India, Pakistan and people of J&K would be ready by consensus for independent Kashmir, we would accept it.

And what about third option in a plebiscite? In UN resolutions there is no mention of third option.

I said if all the parties of dispute reach a consensus, then only independent Kashmir is possible, not in a plebiscite as it would divide our vote.

In a recent interview with GK, state Congress president Prof Saif-ud-Din Soz said that if separatists claim to be representatives of the people, they should show it in elections. Are you people ready to fight elections to show your representative character?

He is wrong. Those who are elected in so-called elections aren’t genuine representatives. I fought election from 1971 to 1987. They were all rigged. There is no credibility of such elections through which people like Soz Sahib have been elected.

Who is the real representative of the people of J&K?

Separatists or mainstream parties? People who represent the aspirations and sentiments of Kashmiris are the real representatives. And I can say it with authority that those who represent sentiments for Azadi are the real representatives of the people of J&K.

Do you think that mainstream parties like NC and PDP have a role to play in resolution of K-issue?

They have no right, as they are the people who are responsible for the slavery of Kashmiris. Their role is only limited to participate in so-called elections.

NC president Omar Abdullah recently in an interview with GK said that he has no problems in sharing any platform with the separatists. Do you hold the same view about the mainstream parties?

What can they do to settle the K-issue? They accept accession to India as final solution. NC’s stand is autonomy and Mufti (Muhammad Sayeed) Sahib’s stand is status quo with Pakistan. Congress wants complete occupation. What can you achieve by sharing table with such people?

You are being considered hardliner and several people in India say that Hurriyat Conference (Mirwaiz) is the better group to talk to.

When they (Mirwaiz Hurriyat) went to New Delhi in 2004 for talks, I was addressing a rally at Chotta Bazar where a youth had been martyred. I announced it from there, if they can bring freedom, I would be the first one to welcome them. Today, again I say, if they can achieve freedom b y talking to India, we are with them. Ask them now, what they achieved by talking to India. Musharaf also talked to India, but achieved nothing. When militancy broke out in Kashmir in 1990, like most of the leaders that time you also supported gun. Do you think gun has any role to play now? Do you think we supported gun that time because of any compulsion. Our policy this time is also that gun is a factor in the solution of Kashmir issue. We have no direct contact with them (militants) and we won’t use gun in our struggle. Infact, our policy is that even we won’t use even a stone in our struggle. When some youth raised some provocative slogans like against India recently, I stopped them. We won’t use gun in our struggle, but gun is a factor till we won’t achieve freedom.

Has militant leadership any role to play? They have a definite role.

Their representation is a must in any solution.

Apart from implementation of UN resolutions, is there any other solution of Kashmir issue?

By consensus, if all the parties involved in the conflict agree for total independence of whole of the J&K including AJK. But the best solution is implementation of UN resolutions.

When Army and other security agencies are involved in human rights violations, you highlight them. But some people say when militants are involved in such violations you keep mum?

In the second edition of my book Qasia Dard, I’ve highlighted the wrongdoings of militants on 13 pages. Militants weren’t angles, they were also human beings and humans commit mistakes.

I don’t believe in nothing or everything

Freedom struggles across the world have succeeded or failed. A host of factors determine the probability of success or failure. I believe in incremental approach. I've no doubt about the conviction and aspirations of our people as they have rendered exemplary sacrifices, but leadership is in desperate need of a workable strategy. Peoples Conference leader, Sajjad Gani Lone, in an exclusive interview with GK senior correspondent Zulfikar Majid

How do you view present uprising in the state?
The present uprising is a manifestation of the sentiment in its most profound form. Two distinctive features stand out. First it is a continuation of the struggle since 1947 and second it is a peaceful movement, wherein the level of sentiment, emotions and involvement of the people of Kashmir have peaked. Irrespective of how it started, it is way towards resolution of Kashmir issue.

What for lakhs of people were on streets? Was it because of land transfer controversy, economic blockade or any other reason?
It is simple and straightforward. They are demanding Azadi. They are demanding secession from India and resolution of Kashmir issue.

Is Azadi or secession from India achievable?
Freedom struggles across the world have succeeded or failed. A host of factors determine the probability of success or failure. Two internal dimensions are important. The conviction and aspirations of the people to struggle and a capable leadership to direct the struggle towards a successful attainment of objective of liberation. I've no doubt about the conviction and aspirations of our people, they have rendered exemplary sacrifices. I'm afraid I can't say the same for the caliber and capability of the leadership.

Whom would you blame for present crisis?
It is all rooted in not resolving Kashmir issue.

So you mean to say that land transfer controversy and economic blockade aren't the reasons?
Things sometimes act as catalysts. In 1987, you had rigged elections. That wasn't the cause of 1990 movement, but it acted as a catalyst. It inspired the people to go on the original cause. Similarly, this shrine board land transfer controversy catalyzed and inspired the people. It was a timely colonial reminder.

Did it provide impetus to the ongoing "freedom" struggle?
Much needed fresh impetus. Not to the freedom struggle, but to the people. Freedom struggle was always there.

How do you view recent agreement between government and Sangrash Samiti?
It is a non-issue and doesn't matter. I never believe that Sangrash Samiti was any organization running the agitation. It was the state agitation, as they wanted to give a perception that there isn't only one view in J&K state, but there is a counter view also. It was run by the state and was ended by the state. So I don't think we should waste our time discussing the merits of that agreement.

So you mean than land is no issue.
Land is an issue, but at proper time. As on date resolution of Kashmir is the main issue.

In your view what is the solution now?
My vision of solution is laid out in detail in our vision document titled Achievable Nationhood. I stand by it and I feel it is most relevant today. Leadership in Kashmir is in desperate need of strategy. Hartals, protests, sacrifices are means to an end. They cannot be an end in themselves. We need a mission statement, a clear demarcation of short term, medium term and long-term objectives. In the short term, we could chart out what I call achievable issues. In medium term, we need to force the Indian state to come up with a formal, structural, time bound dialogue process involving India, Pakistan and Kashmiris. And in the long term, would strive for a final resolution.

What is the meaning of "opt out option" in your "Achievable Nationhood"?
Since J&K is not ethnically homogenous and there is small amount of heterogeneity. If some areas feel that their interests aren't better suited being part of J&K, they should opt out. We believe that regions can't be allowed to opt out because regions aren't ethnically homogenous. If opt out option is allowed, a small area spread over two and half districts might decide to opt out. I think, it would make their lives better and would solve there as well as our problems.

On May 25, 2008 in a seminar you talked about realism. Where does the realism stand now?
It is much more relevant now than when I said it. Our problem is that we live in a world of disinformation. People try to confuse realism with dilution of objectives. I believe in incremental approach. I don't believe in everything or nothing approach. When I say realism, step-by-step approach it doesn't mean, we give up dream of liberation. Realism is an insurance against ending up with nothing. We practice realism for the self in our daily lives, why not practice realism for the nation.

Do you think implementation of UN resolution and right to self-determination is still valid and practicable?
In terms of implementation no. But in terms of them being an indicator that a dispute exists, the are most important, as they are the only proof you have that it is the disputed territory.
I will put it in this way. The context of UN resolution is much more important than the content of the UN resolution. The content might have weakened, but the context is very very strong even today.

You were accused of fielding proxy candidates in 2002 assembly elections.
These were allegations made with mala fide political intentions by our ideological detractors. There were and are people in the separatist movement including my late father (Abdul Gani Lone) who fought elections and took oath under Indian constitution. I've been accused of fielding or facilitating proxies, but I've never taken oath under Indian constitution. Those who have taken oath under Indian constitution have shown no remorse and I've to be eternally slandered by virtue of an accusation. Let us have a debate who facilitated PDP victory, who supported Communists in 2002 elections. Anyway let bygones be bygones. I don't want a new controversy.
The truth is that in 2002, I had just lost my father to bullets, I was new in politics and an emotional son grieving the loss of his father was unable to defend himself. I mixed politics and emotions. The greatest shock was that elders who I had addressed as uncles throughout my life and who I had thought would rally around their dead colleague's son were the ones raising the pitch. This paradox will always confront me. People who do not have the moral courage to fend for their dead colleague's, inexperienced son should never be expected to fend for the nation.

Will Peoples Conference launch election boycott campaign in future?
We will go by the collective decision of the separatist parties. We won't take any unilateral decision. Whatever separatist leadership decides, we would abide by that.

During recent protest rallies, most of the separatist leaders were leading from the front. You were not seen anywhere in those rallies. Reasons.
Movements have multidimensional facets. One has to address rallies, organize protests etc. Equally important is the message that you want to convey to the international community and to the people of the country, which has subjugated you. It is a politician's dream to be on the front-pages addressing mammoth rallies. I'm sure I can do that whenever I want to. This time I sacrificed it all and instead to the best of my ability tried to defend my nation in TV debates and media. I'm proud I never used the word "I" and instead used the word "WE". In TV debates, I forgot about the self and instead focused on the nation.

If given a chance again, you would like to part of these rallies?
Why not? Our people were there. People belonging to our party were there as it was people's movement. Our spirit was there.

What about unification of Hurriyat Conference and other pro-freedom leadership.
I'm not against unity and nobody perhaps can be against it. But we have to see what the objective is. Is objective unity? Is objective sitting together and getting ourselves photographed or is objective that we force the Indian state to deliver? If unity can bring in a level of mental and ideological cohesion that we can force India to deliver, then it is the best thing and I support it. Unity has to be on ideological grounds. Unless we do not address the main ideological parameters that divide us it is a futile exercise and bound to result in short term gain and long-term pain. Unity should not be for the sake of unity but for the sake of forcing India to deliver.
Having said that, what we do need is excellent levels of communication between all separatist outfits. And one of the most important thing is that none of the separatist groups should be allowed the luxury of hitting out at each other publicly.

Do you think a united Hurriyat would be more effective in highlighting the K-issue in international forums?
I don't think the separatists were ever divided. The broad objective has always been the same that we want our land to be liberated. Differences were whether it should be a one step process or a multi step process. Please read history. Unity and a united platform are utopian concepts and do not exist in the real world. Disputes per se are not irresolvable. Presence or absence of statesmanship, vision and courage of the leadership to the make distinction between the desirable and the achievable are the most important variables, which will make the Kashmir conflict resolvable. Lack of unity is a fig leaf.

Separatists frequently call for strikes, which affect common masses. Do you support strike calls?
I do not subscribe to the concept of frequent strikes. Incidentally there is no evidence of strikes in Islamic history. Neither is there any significant correlation between strikes and successful liberation movements across the world. Striking work emerged mainly as a communist concept where the daily waged worker wants to inflict economic costs on to the capitalist owners. I fail to understand who we are punishing here and how does India get affected if we boycott economic activity and work. I'm sure the Indian state must be feeling elated when Kashmiri children do not go to school, the sick can't go to doctor, the daily waged lose their daily wages etc. If you look at a hartal or a curfew, anatomy of the two is almost same. One hartal or two hartals in a year, I can understand. If we don't allow our children to go to the schools, where will be the human resources to make it a great nation which we dream of? It is a self-inflicted wound, which desperately needs a re-think.

OK, do you think that gun played a role in highlighting Kashmir issue and has it any role now?
Gun played a role and nobody can deny it. When gun came here there was a concept of social sanctity attached to it and it is attached even today. People didn't see young men wielding the gun as terrorists or criminals, but as saviors and liberators of the nation. I think they aroused the conscience and were pivotal in rallying the sentiment of people peaking at that time.
Now that the non-violent movement has come on to the fore, I wouldn't say that they are irrelevant. But I think as has been suggested by some statements of (militant) commanders that we allow more space to non-violent movement, because as on date it is more palatable for rest of the world.

In a recent interview with GK, state Congress president Prof Saif-ud-Din Soz said that if separatists claim to be representatives of the people, they should show it in elections. Are you people ready to fight elections to show your representative character?
I'm sad that Soz Sahib has said it. He is a Kashmiri and he should understand it that it is an Indian establishment's old excuse. People who have any doubt about separatists' representative character should have seen the people on the streets.

And if elections are held under UN supervision.
Any day we would be ready for that, but not under the Indian constitution.

Do you think that mainstream parties like NC and PDP have a role to play in resolution of K-issue?
They certainly have a role to play. When I talked about short term objectives they could convey to the Indian state that they will not fight elections, until short term demands are met. That is the role they have to play. But the problem with them is that they are confused. On one hand they want to please India and on other they want to please Kashmiris and the separatists. So they end up confusing the whole issue. They have a very big role to play, if they want to. They shouldn't fight elections, till India accepts some demands like opening of all routes with Pakistan and AJK, let the army go back to barracks, cases against Kashmiris be withdrawn, let all the Kashmiri prisoners be released and Kashmir be declared as economic zone. There are a lot of measures, which they could facilitate for this movement, if they are real Kashmiris and really feel for Kashmir.

NC president Omar Abdullah recently in an interview with GK said that he has no problems in sharing any platform with the separatists. Do you hold the same view about the mainstream parties?
Irrespective of his ideology as an individual I see him as a very dynamic politician and was particularly impressed by a recent interview of his. Given his exposure, articulation and cosmopolitan image, he could be an asset to the movement if only he decides to resist the temptation of the perks of power.

So that means you are ready to share table with mainstreams for resolution of K-issue?
I've absolutely no problem sitting with anybody. Nobody is above board and there are no holy cows here. We cannot afford to have Kashmiris countering Kashmiris. Nobody is perfect. We have ideological differences with the mainstream parties but I am sure that there can be an overlap over a range of issues and maybe the intensity of the sentiment bridges the ideological gulf in the future. If liberation is an objective it is imperative that an inclusive Kashmiri voice is amplified.

What is the realistic solution of Kashmir now?
To be very honest, I'll still vouch for my "Achievable Nationhood" as one of the ways to resolve Kashmir. Unless and until you don't have an interim solution, which will finally evolve into a final resolution wherein India dimension, Pakistan dimension and the independence dimension are not addressed, I don't think you can reach to any solution.
Short-term solution is to allow Kashmiris travel freely to Pakistan and AJK. Travel should be a matter of right and not a matter of subservience to the security agencies for issuance of documents. Pakistan could give them the rights which they give to their own citizens so that any Kashmiri who wants to live their, work their, conduct business should be allowed to do so. We should have identical political systems in AJK and this part of Kashmir. An economic union of of J & K and AJK should come into existence. The said economic union would be a single unified economic territory carved out of two distinct political and geographical territories. This economic union would be a distinct customs territory with its own distinct economic laws. Goods grown or produced in this economic union should have duty free access into Pakistan and India. Cross border institutions should be allowed to evolve unhindered. All draconian laws sjould be repealed and Indian armed forces garrisoned away from civilian areas.

For the past some time, New Delhi has been saying that it is willing for cross LoC trade, but Pakistan is not.
Who is interested in these trucks going for trade, which won't cross even one or two million dollars worth of trade? I do not know the Paksitani viewpoint. But Pakistan had come up with a host of proposals and I feel that india is selctively picking up one issue and more intersted in tokenism rather than real change. It is good if Pakistan refuses to be a party to tokenism. LOC trade for us means free flow of goods, services and people. Or put it simply allow do away with primitive era and give civilized era a chance to evolve.

Then what is the solution for economic blockade of Valley?
For trade, you need to travel and build contacts. You can't do trade when you aren't allowed to move freely. Let people go and come. I see the Muzzafarabad as the future trade route. That will put an end to all the threats of economic blockade by hooligans.

‘It is Muslim Jammu Kashmir versus Hindu India’

It seems today it is Muslim Jammu Kashmir versus Hindu India as whole country had come to support the Sangarsh Samiti and Hindu sentiment. Otherwise you couldn’t have economic blockade working. If a Muslim leader supports Hindu communal agenda that is considered as secularism and nationalism. But if a Muslim leader supports Muslim sentiment it is considered as anti-national and communalism. President of Peoples Democratic Party and member Parliament, MEHBOOBA MUFTI in an exclusive interview with GK senior correspondent ZULFIKAR MAJID talks about the present political scenario in J&K, fallout of recent crisis and says that she still believes that PDP can achieve something within the system.

Q: As PDP president how do you view present crisis in the state and who is to be blamed for it?
It is a grave situation of concern for everybody. It isn’t about blame game now situation has got much beyond which we couldn’t have expected. At the base of it, we have to accept that Kashmir problem is in the minds and hearts of the people. Unless and until we don’t find a solution, any incident or a decision, which has a potential to create some kind of distrust, has the tendency to flare up the situation.
Unfortunately, there is a mindset in Delhi that once the situation settles down in Kashmir you don’t need to do anything about the situation. Normalcy can’t be taken as a substitute of solution.

Q: Is it a political crisis?
It is not only a political crisis but crisis of confidence and trust. People seem to have lost any sort of confidence that was restored after 2002 elections. For the first time, people of J&K were working with the government, which was initiating, catalyzing and driving the peace process. People were feeling part of it. Fortunately, then NDA government was endorsing our decisions.

Q: What is the solution now?
Kashmir issue needs to be settled.

Q: Separatists have been saying it for decades. Do you endorse their stand?
You don’t have to be a separatist to speak facts. You know there is a problem in the hearts and the minds of the Kashmiris and they want the resolution of the problem. And to say that, you don’t need to be a separatist.

Q: UN resolutions and Right to Self-determination is the demand of separatists. In your view can it bring the solution?
I can’t say about the UN resolutions right now. What were the conditions then, what was the situation at that time, what were the relations between India and Pakistan and what was the strength of troops on both the sides? You can find a solution by moving forward rather than going back into history. It is the present which is going to provide us the future.

Q: Last month you and a few other mainstream leaders from Kashmir were asked to leave All Party Meeting at Jammu, how was the feeling?
It wasn’t we were sitting and we were asked to leave. It was even before that when we were in Delhi, we were informed that Sangarsh Samiti has decided they are not going to meet Kashmiri Muslim leaders. Infact they said they wouldn’t meet all party delegation if we were there. As soon as we came to know about this, we opted out.

Q: Did it hurt you?
I have a conviction and commitment and if people don’t like it and they oppose it, it doesn’t hurt me. After all, my stand is more dear to me rather what people think about me.

Q: PDP supported Muzzafferabad Chalo call of Coordination Committee. Even you and few other PDP leaders stated they would march with the people. But apart from that PDP did nothing practically.
Don’t say that. Seven of the people killed were PDP workers. We were very much part of Muzzafferabad Chalo march. I can give you the names.
And it wasn’t the call given by CC, but Fruit Association. When All Party delegation arrived in Jammu, they did everything to appease the Samiti and other traders, as everybody kept condition to meet them. But when delegation came to Srinagar, traders and fruit growers were ready to talk to them without any conditions. But unfortunately, they had to wait for two hours and they felt humiliated. So much care was taken in Jammu to bend their backs and even we cooperated there. So when it became issue of our people and they needed our support, we were part of it.

Q: You like so many people say that Kashmiris are being discriminated. Brute force was used here to quell protests, while in Jammu government showed restraint. If you can’t do anything to stop it, why don’t you resign from Parliament?
(Smiles) It is very fashionable to say that I’ m going to resign. First of all I would say it isn’t Kashmir versus Jammu now. We have seen the discrimination on the basis of Muslim-Hindu. You will agree with me. If you will see how the people were dealt in Rajouri, Poonch and Kishtwar, where different means were used on two communities. It became more or less Muslim-Hindu kind of a problem, which is very unfortunate. Today, we are being bashed in national media and called by all kinds of names. But that doesn’t make us change our stand.
Our party has been a part of the system. I can’t say that I’m 100 percent satisfied but at least we had some solace that a very new party could achieve much more within the system. We have been able to make difference within the system. So by making these rhetoric statements that I’m going to resign as I’m fed up of system and I will work outside it what will I achieve for the people? You can do more for your people within the system rather than outside it?
What my experience is that we have been able to achieve something within the system. Mufti (Muhammad Sayeed) sahib has been the only leader who has been able to persuade and not be persuaded by the New Delhi.

Q: So you want to work within the system?
I’m still hopeful about the system. There are still very reasonable voices in Delhi who are ready to listen to your reason and who are ready to give peace a chance. Otherwise, how could prime minister of India agree to one country, two systems? They gave J&K an edge when we demanded permit system on Muzzaferabad road. If we have enough convincing power and are able to cultivate enough support of masses, it is not a big deal to convince reasonable voices in Delhi to follow a line in J&K, which can ultimately lead to resolution of the problem.

Q: Coming to Shrine Board land transfer controversy, Pro-freedom leaders, your erstwhile coalition partner Congress and NC blame PDP for it.
It is the Chief Minister who is head of the cabinet. When Mufti Sahib was CM, he revoked the order. General SK Sinha himself admitted that he used to write to New Delhi about Mufti Sahib’s anti national activities. But people like you have forgotten many a things. Mufti Sahib revoked the order in 2005 when Sonali Kumar (Commissioner Secretary) wife of Arun Kumar (Chief Executive Officer Shrine Board) had managed the land diversion without the knowledge of the cabinet. She was served a notice and as usual Congress intervened and they went to a court and filed a PIL. Unfortunately, the person who was fighting the case became the judge. And the case was transferred to Jammu. It was all kind of an arranged thing.

Q: When the land was transferred why didn’t PDP’s then Forest Minister Qazi Muhammad Afzal and then Deputy CM Muzafar Hussain Beig oppose it in cabinet. Infact, initially they supported it.
Do you remember that Ghulam Nabi Azad had taken Forest Ministry for four months from Qazi Afzal? Do you know that Forest Advisory clearance was manipulated at that point of time and who was the chairman of that board? It was Mr Kundal.

Q: Why didn’t you withdraw support that time?
Whether you believe it or not the PPD leadership didn’t know about it. It was already done. We came to know about the land transfer only through your newspaper. Before that I was in Delhi and Beig Sahib called me and said “Mehbooba Jee, Shrine Board ka mamla aya tha, hum ne uss see reject kiya”. They (PDP ministers) had already rejected it twice in cabinet. Third time, CM had already cleared it through advisory council and routed it through Forest Minister. Because Forest Minister didn’t know about it political consequences, he cleared it, as advisory council had already cleared it.
Yes, we accept our ministers should have again rejected it. But it doesn’t mean it was only PDP ministers and CM had nothing to do with it.
When we came to know about this controversy, we tried to persuade Azad. We told him just get the order revoked. But it was a political game. NC first time had got an issue against PDP and so had Hurriyat. Azad who was all the time keen to go with NC was first time feeling that PDP was getting a beating. He underestimated the reaction in Kashmir. He thought he would consolidate his base in Jammu and NC would gain in Kashmir.
We put an ultimatum on June 23, revoke it or we will withdraw. It was decided on June 26 with the Governor (who had not taken oath till then) that state government would provide all the facilities to the yatries and land diversion order would be revoked. But unfortunately, he (Azad) wasn’t doing it. He called PDP ministers on June 28 and tried to convey them that he couldn’t do it. He told our ministers (Abdul Aziz Zarger and Dilawar Mir) that Rajnath Singh (BJP president) has threatened that there would be massive protest throughout India, if order is revoked. He also told them that he can’t set the whole country on fire for Kashmir.
Ultimately on June 28, we decided to withdraw to build pressure on Delhi.

Q: When PDP had severe differences with Congress on demilitarization, you choose to remain with them?
From the very beginning, Azad’s way of functioning was a problem. Hindus of Jammu may be deadly against us this time, but they admit when Mufti was CM, he tried to be man of all the regions. But as soon as Azad came, he tried to do things to sabotage PDP. We never wanted to withdraw for our personal problems.
He didn’t allow us to discuss demilitarization issue in the cabinet. But PM and UPA chairperson (Sonia Gandhi) intervened and said they are ready to set up a Defence Committee. Many schools, bunkers and other places were vacated.

Q: Mainstream parties and especially PDP over the years claimed that normalcy in the state has returned and also claim credit for that. Recent uprising by Kashmiris over SASB land controversy and economic blockade have dented those claims. What is PDP’s view now?
When we say normalcy, we don’t mean nothing should be done. Development, progress and economic packages are very important, but resolution of Kashmir is equally important. In roundtable conferences, it was PDP who asked for reduction of troops, revocation of AFSPA, trans-LoC trade, rehabilitation of families of militants and return of boys from across (Pakistan). At that point of time all these parties shouted at us. I remember Farooq Abdullah taunting me in front of PM that I’m wearing a green abya and have green flag. We faced so many difficulties from every party. Even today all communal and so-called secular forces from Kaniyakumari to Jammu are ganged up on one side against PDP. In the name of proving their secular credentials, NC leadership supported Sangarsh Samiti. When government signed accord with Samiti, Farooq Abdullah went to the extent of saying this is the victory of truth and defeat of evil. But they forgot where does the Muslim sentiment go. Whole country had come to support the Samiti and Hindu sentiment. Otherwise, you couldn’t have economic blockade working. Now Kashmir had only hope with their leadership and among them there was a division. You had everybody coming to support Samiti with tridents and swords. If a Muslim leader supports Hindu communal agenda that is secularism and nationalism. But if a Muslim leader supports Muslim sentiment that is considered as anti-national and communalism.

Q: Will Kashmir be normal now?
It isn’t normal and it can’t be. Unfortunately section of state and central governments has got polarized on communal lines. It seems today it is Muslim Jammu Kashmir versus Hindu India. Muslim Jammu Kashmir because in Jammu, you have Muslims in Rajouri, Poonch, Doda and other places. It seems Muslims of J&K are on one side and Hindus of India on the other.

Q: Under such circumstances, will you support Mirwaiz Umar’s proposal? (That fanatics can take two and half districts of Jammu where Hindus are in majority)
If Mirwaiz who had been making very balanced statements and if today he is talking about such things, it is the situation on the ground. I was in Delhi and I had meetings with everybody from Pranab Mukherjee and Home Minister to everybody and I tried to make them understand no unilateral decisions. Because it would be seen as victory for Hindus and defeat for Muslims. If they had agreed to Samiti’s demands, what did you do for Kashmiris where more than 40 people were killed? We told them when you are taking sentiments of Jammu people in consideration; balance it by taking sentiments of Kashmiris also into consideration. At least they could have announced dates of opening of Muzzaferabad road, revocation of AFSPA. Today Kashmiris have rejected the gun, but now they are facing the gun. What is the justification of AFSPA?

Q: Out of power you people talk about human rights violations. When PDP came into existence, Mehbooba Mufti used to visit the families of those killed by troops. When your party came into power, you forgot about HR violations and so many people accused that you shed crocodile tears to woo the voters. Your say?
Whenever anything used to happen (from 2002-2005), me and my father used to be there. I remember when a person was killed by the troops in Shopian and I went there, his daughter caught hold of my collar. When a bridegroom was killed in Kupwara, I and Mufti Sahib were there. We never said it was zero percent, but if you compare three years rule of PDP, with any period before or after, there were the least number of HR violations.

Q: It has become a justification for every party that in our rule, there were less HR violations and in others there were more.
I’m not giving any justification. I’m saying that we tried to improve. When Mufti Sahib took over, there was STF, Ikhwanis were extorting money and there was no sense of security. Q: Who represents Kashmiris: Mainstream parties or separatists?
You can’t categorize. Five or six hundred thousand people who were on streets recently weren’t led by the Hurriyat, but they got Hurriyat leaders from their houses. Today, it is youth who are leading Kashmir.

Q: But who represents their sentiment?
It depends. There is anger and upsurge and it has so many dimensions. These are the youth who saw worst kind of things. The only way they feel they can vent out this anger is “Hum kya chahte, azadi”. Azadi has many dimensions. For me azadi is about empowerment of the people that nobody can blackmail you through blockade.

Q: Can you mobilize say hundred thousand people in the name of mainstream politics?
No. It isn’t possible because the sentiment among the people here is so anti-India and pro-independence at this juncture. People feel so hurt and alienated. I’m a mainstream politician and I believe in the system. But I’m not able to justify it to my people, why government showed restraint in Jammu, and in Kashmir over 40 people were killed. Muslims have started feeling that there is nobody behind them. For Hindus of Jammu whole country will come and even some of our leaders would stand by them. Who is going to stand by the Muslim majority, as everybody is scared that they would be called anti-nationals?

Q: When should be the elections held in the state?
I can’t say. Wounds of people are still so raw. May be in Jammu they are ready to go for elections. People here didn’t get time to grieve due to curfew and other restrictions.

Q: Will there be any effect of election boycott now?
People here feel disillusioned and it has further pushed them. The justification of separatists for election boycott is getting consolidated.

Q: What will be PDP’s manifesto for coming elections?
We will sit and discuss it when time comes.

Q: Will PDP enter into a coalition with Congress again before or after the polls?
I don’t think. People of the state should learn the lesson from what happened during last few weeks. People were alienated on one side in Rajouri, Poonch and Doda while on the other side there were people who got everything. Message has to go that they have to give a party enough strength to stand for them. God forbid, if it isn’t decisive, communal forces coming up in Jammu will side with Congress, and off late NC has been no different.
I expect people will give a positive mandate to a party which they feel is at least able to take care of and be sensitive to their emotions.

Q: Which are the safe pockets of PDP in the state?
(Laughs) why should I tell you? Because everybody is ganged up against us. But inshallah, I hope we would do much better than 2002.

Q: Mehbooba Mufti next CM of J&K?
I’m on fast today and it is prohibited to lie. Otherwise also I don’t lie due to which I’m not liked by some people. I’ve never had a desire or an ambition of becoming a CM. If we go through the history, Mufti Sahib has been the best CM of the state. By the grace of God, when and if elections take place and we get a chance, there should be no confusion that who will be our CM. It would be Mufti Sahib. He is a visionary and we need a leader like him.
(The interview is part of series on mainstream and separatist leadership)

Elections under UN supervision are never possible

Whosoever is interested in resolution of Kashmir issue must come forward for a dialogue with New Delhi as there are no tailor-made solutions available. Prime Minister of India invited Hurriyat Conference for a dialogue, but thereafter you can’t expect every time invitation from a PM. State Congress president and Union Water Resources Minister, PROF SAIF-UD-DIN SOZ in an exclusive interview with GK senior correspondent ZULFIKAR MAJID talks about demilitarization, ensuing assembly polls and has a word of advice for Hurriyat to participate in the forthcoming election to show their representative character.

Q: As state Congress president, how do you view the present political crisis in the state?
It was an unfortunate situation. It shouldn’t have happened. You must know that best of the governor rule is hardly comparable to any civilian government, whatever its nature. A bad civilian government is far better than competent governor rule. Mr. N.N Vohra is a competent person and a very good administrator. But I can tell you that governor rule creates barrier. When there is civilian government, people meet ministers. There is fundamental difference between the two administrations.

Q: Is it a political crisis?
No it is nothing new. But governor rule could have been avoided.

Q: Who is to be blamed?
Withdrawal of support (by PDP) was deplorable. But I don’t want to sound bitter. It was their choice, they did it. I call it deplorable because differences could be sorted out. They had given deadline of June 30 and there was no point withdrawing on 29th. It was unfortunate. But now we have to move forward as we can’t live in bitterness in political arena.

Q: Mainstream parties over the years claimed that normalcy in the state has returned and also claimed credit for that. Recent uprising has dented those claims to an extent. What is Congress’s view now?
Kashmir is normal with patches of abnormalcy. It happens. The kind of situation that was on ground after land question blunted the process of normalcy for a period of time. But now, normalcy has returned. I addressed several rallies in Kupwara district. People want redressal of their problems.
It isn’t kind of turmoil what we witnessed in 1990’s. But recent uprising against the request of the Shrine Board for land certainly created some uproar.

Q: During SASB land transfer issue, Congress initially stated that no decision has been taken to allot the land? Why did you later on change your stand?
Neither had land been transferred, nor had that been cancelled. There was a request from SASB and that was in process— that land would be granted for raising temporary structures. So when people thought it wasn’t correct, state government decided to give facilities and amenities to the yatries themselves. Governor also felt that and withdrew the request as state government was in a far better position to provide facilities to the yatries than the SASB.

Q: But there was a cabinet decision in this regard which was later withdrawn?
Rightly so, because people found this was unusual and wasn’t needed. Government considered it and simultaneously the request of the governor that since the government can offer the facilities in far better way, so he withdrew the earlier request. When the request was withdrawn, earlier cabinet decision became redundant.

Q: After the recent uprising, the activities of mainstream political parties have come to a standstill. Reasons?
I addressed several big rallies in Kupwara (on Saturday). The response of people was massive. So I don’t think there has been much difference. Yes, I admit recent agitation ascended the temper. Who will say no? But now everything is on track. People want their problems addressed.

Q: Will there be any effect of election boycott of Hurriyat?
I don’t think people will boycott elections. In villages there won’t be any boycott. What will people of Kashmir get out of boycott? We had so many boycotts, nothing positive happened.

Q: Often both state and central government statements suggest that there are few hundred militants present in the state but still there is huge presence of troops. Do you advocate for demilitarization?
I’ve never used this expression, demilitarization. Those people who raise this issue never explain what they mean by the demilitarization. We must know that Army general will never consult any politician about where a Jawan has to be posted?
But in the meantime people like me have very vigorously been talking to Defense Ministry. So many reforms have already taken place. Rent of the land which Army is occupying has been raised thrice. So many places have been vacated. I raised the issue with Defence Ministry that school buildings, industrial estates must be vacated and barracks should be constructed for Army. So many places have been vacated.

Q: But do you think that presence of huge number of troops is needed to fight a few hundred militants?
That is the bigger question and not for me to answer. It is Pakistan-India question. Kashmir passed through long spell of armed militancy comparable to any worst situation in the world. So it was a kind of a war and the militancy was sponsored by the neighboring country. At this point of time I won’t say that Pakistan government is behind this now, because in Pakistan also it has impacted adversely. When it is totally peaceful, Army isn’t needed, but it isn’t so. Some people say this enormous Army is here. If India and Pakistan become friends, I’m sure there won’t be presence of troops.

Q: Do you mean that Army isn’t here fighting militants only, but it is the threat of Pakistan?
Whole world knows that militancy in Kashmir was sponsored by Pakistan. I won’t deny that local support was there. It was a situation of war. Now in that context it isn’t for me to say how much of Army should be there nor can neighboring country say you have this much of Army. It is question of security.

Q: Who represents the people of J&K, separatists or mainstream parties?
Those who are in the assembly or in the government, I accept them as representatives. But simultaneously Hurriyat Conference speaks for the people in their own right. They also represent a shade of the opinion. But if they say they have to represent people and raise voice on their behalf, whole world will say there is only one test. You have to accept the elections. Somebody can go to Lal Chowk and say he/she is the leader, but mere assertions can’t make anybody a leader.

Q: But Hurriyat says they will participate in elections if it is held under the supervision of United Nations or any other credible international organization.
That is not possible. You must know what is pragmatic. When elections are fair you can’t merely say UN will come forward. Even UN isn’t interested in that. It can never happen to my mind elections would be held under UN supervision.
I don’t advice Hurriyat and others to participate in the elections. It is for them to decide. But If they want to be accepted as sole representatives, the test is vote.

Q: Has Hurriyat Conference any role to play in the resolution of Kashmir issue?
Why not. I was a votary of a very vigorous dialogue between Hurriyat and New Delhi. I was instrumental in that at some point of time. So they must talk to New Delhi and vice-versa. They must talk to Prime Minister or anybody on behalf of him because dialogue is the only solution of problem. Politics under the shadow of gun is suicidal to the society.

Q: One faction of Hurriyat was engaged in talks with New Delhi for four years. Now they say that talks yielded nothing as New Delhi isn’t ready to show any flexibility.
See, Prime Minister invited them. But thereafter you can’t expect every time invitation from PM. Through you I convey it to Hurriyat that there are sometimes complaints that dialogue process wasn’t vigorous. But it wasn’t because of India; it was because of Pakistan. Prime Minister of India at one point of time was willing to go to Pakistan. But General Mushraf at that time suggested to the PM that you please don’t come for now because Pakistan unfortunately got into a situation of turmoil, confrontation between judiciary and executive. So we never imagined it can snowball into a major deadlock.
There was instability writ large on the horizons of Pakistan. So it adversely affected the dialogue process. Yet the dialogue was going on very slowly. It wasn’t suspended completely.

Q: Do you offer an invitation to Hurriyat for a fresh round of talks with New Delhi?
Who am I to offer an invitation? But Prime Minister of India invited them at one point of time. So I say whosoever is interested in resolution of crisis must come forward for a dialogue. There are no tailor-made solutions available as it will evolve out of dialogue and dialogue is the only basis which they have to accept. Gun is no solution.

Q: Does Congress accept Kashmir as a disputed territory?
You may call it disputed or not but the point is mainstream has to get strengthened. As long as there is separatism, there is political imbroglio. Yes there are issues between India and Pakistan, who can deny it. It is a political stalemate, imbroglio which has to be resolved, people have to come and join the mainstream. Whatever issues have to be raised, must be raised with New Delhi. India may not agree on a tripartite dialogue, but bilateral dialogue between New Delhi and Islamabad, New Delhi and Srinagar. Dialogue can go on both axis at a same time and there is no harm in that.

Q: Talking of elections, have you finalized the list of candidates for the upcoming polls?
Not yet, we shall have a committee. But there is no big dispute about candidates. We know our candidates on fingertips.

Q: What will be Congress’s manifesto for 2008 elections?
Peace and development and restoration of normalcy are big goals and we shall work for them.

Q: Do you advocate for autonomy to J&K?
I’ve been champion of autonomy and that stand I’ve not given up. But when I talked about autonomy, it was my slogan. It was painful situation in my heart and mind to see Kashmiris being killed. I became conscious of it in 1990 when some people wanted merger with Pakistan, others wanted independence. I imagined I must work for Kashmir. Achievable goal was autonomy.
But today, I’ve a bigger goal than autonomy. I want a rigorous dialogue between India and Pakistan, between New Delhi and Kashmir and that dialogue itself can lead to an acceptable solution. When parties talk and talk and talk, they ultimately come to find a middle ground.

Q: Will Congress enter into a coalition with NC before or after the polls? Recently you talked about it.
No, I was misinterpreted because those people who heard me didn’t know anything. I was quoting Bashir Bader’s couplet (Dushmani jam kar karo, par itni gunjaish rahe phir se jab hum dost ho jayen, tou sharmanda na ho). Then I quoted the example of Bakshi Sahib and Sheikh Sahib.
Today I want to tell you that in politics anything is possible. In politics there are no permanent enemies and no permanent friends.

Q: That means there is also chance of collaboration with your old ally PDP?
I had not that time meant PDP is out and Congress is going to NC. These things aren’t so simple. You have to have right arithmetic at right time. I’ll give my opinion to Sonia Gandhi at right time, so will other leaders. Today, I can’t see that PDP is in and NC is out or vice-versa. At this point of time I feel I must promote Congress to the best of my abilities.

Q: In the recent vote of confidence in Parliament both NC and PDP voted in favour of UPA government? Do you think both parties want to keep central Congress leadership happy?
It isn’t making happy anybody. It is a situation in which you have to select one party. They found they couldn’t go with NDA, so they went with democratic secular force. May be they also thought nuclear deal was in favor of country.

Q: When should the elections be held in the state?
On time. If not October, then November.

Q: Do you think situation is conducive for the elections in October or November?
That will be seen. Perhaps Jammu situation isn’t appearing good this time.

Q: Azad and you were claiming till the last moment that you have the required number in the Assembly. Then what went wrong?
Basic assurance came from Azad Sahib. He was confident and I was sharing his confidence. But it happens. Recently we showed we made numbers in Parliament. Earlier in 1999 BJP would say they had numbers, but they fell short by one.

Q: When former Chief Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad withdrew confidence motion in assembly, he said that members from opposition parties wished to vote in favour of Congress, but he doesn’t want to put them in trouble as they might have to go against the party whip. Who were those MLAs?
Nobody knows. Only Azad Sahib knows and this question can be put straight to him. We were confident, but numbers weren’t there.

Q: Which are the safe pockets of Congress in the state?
We are trying hard. But somebody will say that Congress is less acceptable and PDP or NC is more, I don’t think so. Many factors are there. The people of J&K will vote for sincere and honest candidates.

Q: In a recent interview with GK, NC president Omar Abdullah said that New Delhi wants to create one leader in every mohalla of Kashmir to create confusion. Your take on this?
He should mention one among those leaders.

Q: Prof Soz, the next CM of J&K?
I don’t have an answer to this question. It would be decided by the party legislature that time.

Q: Are you in the race?
It is party high command that decides and my ambitions remain under control.

Q: As union Water Resources Minister, what have you done to restore the glory of Dal, Wullar and other water bodies of Kashmir?
Water Resources ministry doesn’t have charge of lakes and rivers, so I couldn’t have done much. But as Environment minister earlier, I did get a project of Rs 300 crores for Dal. The whole money couldn’t be spent and whatever little money was there, it was misappropriated.
Actually it is a gigantic task. It can neither be done under court orders nor by government alone. Peoples’ involvement is needed.
(The interview is part of a series on mainstream and separatist leadership)

(Greater Kashmir Op-Ed Page, July 30, 2008)

I believe in promises that can be kept

ACROSS THE TABLE
Any claims of normalcy are premature. New Delhi wants to have one leader in every mohalla of Kashmir to create confusion. National Conference president OMAR ABDULLAH in an exclusive interview talks to GK senior correspondent ZULFIKAR MAJID about the present political scenario in the J&K, party’s strategy in coming elections.

Q: As president of opposition party how do you view present political crisis in the state?
I wouldn’t call it a political crisis. If there would have few years to go for elections and governor’s rule was imposed, then it would have been so. Anyways elections were due in October and, therefore I don’t see it as a crisis.
In first week of August anyway election code of conduct would have been in place, so in essence we lost three weeks. Yes, state government should have avoided it.

Q: Who is to be blamed for the present political instability?
Alliance partners Congress and Peoples Democratic Party who were unable to work together. But lions share of the blame must go to the PDP. They were the party to the decision (transfer of 800 kanals of forest land to SASB) but when they saw public anger they opposed the decision.

Q: Separatists and PDP blame NC for creating SASB. How would you defend your party?
The problem wasn’t with SASB, but with allocation of land. If problem was the creation of SASB, then protests would have been held in 2000. Why did the protests start only in 2000? Did you see any of the protesters shouting against SASB?

Q: Mainstream parties over the years claimed that normalcy in the state has returned and also claimed credit for that. Recent uprising has dented those claims to an extent. What is NC’s view now?
I can’t talk about other parties, but NC never claimed that normalcy has returned. There are regular encounters between militants and security forces. I regularly get information from my colleagues about movement of the militants. One reads about infiltration having gone up.
Politically also the climate gives us some cause of concern. There is no way that I will claim normalcy has returned. Any claims of normalcy are premature.

Q: Often both state and central government statements suggest that there are few hundred militants present in the state. But still there is huge presence of troops. Do you advocate for demilitarization.
Since they claim that infiltration is less, there statistics show violence is less, there statistics show that the number of militants are less, therefore there is case to be made for reducing the number of troops. But together state and central government have not been able to make any forward movement. There were loud noises of demilitarization, but it didn’t happen. It is part and parcel of the deceit that the coalition government carried out with the people here.

Q: Who is real representative of people of J&K. Mainstream parties or separatists?
No one can claim. Even the separatists can’t represent entire political structure of Kashmir.

Q: But recent mass uprising was the brainchild of separatists?
Recent uprising wasn’t there creation, but it was people’s anger against land transfer decision. It wasn’t something they had done, they grabbed it. If it would have something they had done, they wouldn’t have been forced to run their political activities from the mosques from last few years.

Q: Do you mean that separatists don’t have representative character?
No, I didn’t say that. I said they don’t completely represent.

Q: Then who can talk on behalf of people of J&K?
All of us. If I can go to Pakistan, so can they, if I can go to Delhi, so can they.

Q: Has Hurriyat conference a role to play in the K-issue?
Hurriyat Conference has a role to play. I don’t think it is either for you or for me to decide who has how much of a role. We have to accept that like Hurriyat, the NC, PDP, etc have representative character in J&K and a role to play.

Q: Do you mean that you can share the platform with separatists for the resolution of K-issue?
Why not. Some conferences we attend together. I have no problems in attending meetings with them.

Q: Do you think people follow you. If you will call for a strike like Hurriyat, will it have any impact?
It is a hypothetical question. If we give a call then we will see.

Q: Your father and NC patron Dr Farooq Abdullah was out of state when Kashmir was burning on SASB land transfer issue. Your say.
He had anyways plans to go out. I’m the president of the party and it was my responsibility to see the party through the tough situation.

Q: Out of power you people talk about human rights violations. But in power your father and former chief minister once said that there isn’t enough space in jails for the militants, so kill them.
(Grew angry). No independent and impartial person will be able to produce the record that he (Dr Farooq) has said kill all the people in the jails. This is the problem with journalism. You people put words in the mouth of others so they utter it. At no point of time he has said kill all the people in jails. But you will publish this as part of your question and people will start believing it. Base the questions on facts.

Q: Number of times from 1996-2002, Dr Farooq urged the central government to bombard Pakistani Kashmir and destroy militant camp?
Are you asking me about Dr Abdullah’s statement or asking about party statement. NC as a party has never condoned HR violations, we have always condemned them. In Pathribal and other incidents enquires were ordered by the NC government. Whether in government or out of it, NC will never condone HR violations.
We didn’t make tall promises and then not fulfilled them. We never went to the people and tell them we will give you healing touch and then killed them. We never said that we will disband the SOG and then allow SOG to run as they like.

Q: NC lost its strongholds like Ganderbal to PDP in 2002. Any special strategy to get it back.
We aren’t going to disclose our strategy. Our strategy will be based on finding right candidates and going to the people with the message that we will deliver and hope that people will repose faith in NC.

Q: Have you finalized the list of candidates for 2008 elections?
There will be some new faces and some old faces.

Q: In 1996, NC fought elections with restoration of autonomy as main issue. What will be NC’s manifesto for 2008 elections?
Our political slogans don’t change with time (with reference to PDP). We are not like political parties who change their slogans from time to time. We continue to believe that restoration of autonomous Jammu and Kashmir where Union of India is responsible only for a select list of subjects is the idle solution which is applicable for both sides of Kashmir.

Q: You mean to say that autonomy is the only solution to K-issue?
I didn’t say the only, but I said the best solution. Others may come up with other solutions.

Q: But your autonomy proposal was rejected by then Atal Baehari Vajpayee led NDA government in 2000 of which you were a minister.
So what. How does it matter? United Nations has rejected your resolutions applicable to Kashmir. Not anybody less than the secretary general of the UN has rejected all Security Council resolutions pertaining to Kashmir. Has anybody in the Hurriyat Conference said we will stop talking about the SC resolutions? One rejection doesn’t mean that we stop talks. Yes, the NDA government didn’t respond the way they should have.

Q: In 2002 despite being the single largest party NC remained in opposition. If in coming elections you again can’t get majority, will you seek support either form PDP or Congress to form the government.
I’m not in the business of answering hypothetical questions. Let the people decide what sort of assembly they want, then the NC will decide.

Q: State Congress president, Prof Saif-ud-Din Soz recently indicated that his party wants to make good relations with NC.
There is no dialogue going on with the Congress party. The Congress party has made its decisions known when they sent an aeroplane with a joint director of the IB to Mehbooba Mufti for a meeting.

Q: Former RAW chief AS Dualt recently said that Omar Abdullah would be new CM.
Fortunately or unfortunately AS Dualt has no official position and therefore as any citizen of this country he is entitled to an opinion. It is nothing more than an opinion of one individual out of more than one billion people. I wouldn’t attach too much importance to that statement.

Q: When should be elections held in the state after the imposition of Governor’s rule?
As early as possible. We were hoping that the possibility of elections immediately after Amarnath Yatra and before Ramzan if possible. But that is unlikely now. We want as soon Eid is over elections should be held.

Q: There is a feeling that NC was lenient towards Congress and harsh towards PDP during last six years.
Yes that is true. Simply because PDP’s politics is based on political vendetta, Congress party’s isn’t.

Q: Is PDP a local threat to NC?
Congress is threat to NC in both Jammu and Kashmir. But Congress doesn’t run its politics on the basis of political vendetta like PDP.

Q: When former chief minister Ghulam Nabi Azad withdrew confidence motion in assembly on Monday he said that members from opposition parties wish to vote in favour of Congress, but he doesn’t want to put them in trouble as they might have to go against party whip. Were any of your MLAs going to vote against the whip?
He (Azad) never said it that he doesn’t want to put opposition members in trouble. I was in the assembly. What he said was that he doesn’t want to put some members into trouble. There was absolutely no problem with NC members.

Q: Which are the safe pockets of NC in the state?
That you will come to know when results of 2008 elections are declared.

Q: Will you contest from Ganderbal constituency?
Again you will know that when the party announces its mandate.

Q: What is the manifesto of NC this time?
Again you will know when we will release it. Obviously there will be political, social and economical aspect. It will be based on realistic promises, you won’t see promises like two jobs to each family, etc etc, because these aren’t the realistic promises.

Q: But you have recently promised one job for each family.
No, I haven’t. I have said that we will first seek to give jobs to those households where there is no employed. We have also said that we are looking for possibility of giving stipend to educated unemployed youth who go into training programmes with ITI and others.

Q: Senior NC leader Ali Muhammad Sagar recently said that New Delhi is creating confusion in Kashmir by creating smaller political parties.
These aren’t Sagar Sahib’s words. These are late Sheikh Abdullah Sahib’s words. He had warned people of Kashmir that New Delhi wants to create one leader in every mohalla. And that is what they are doing. Some people can’t win a seat outside their own assembly constituency and they are being projected as leaders of Kashmir. There is an effort made to dilute the voice of the people here by creating more and more so-called leaders here

Q: Is NC target of both New Delhi and Islamabad?
Fortunately for NC we have very good relations with Islamabad and very cordial relations with the New Delhi and therefore I would say that we are not target of both.

Q: But in the last 19-years of conflict NC has lost most number of workers and leaders. Reasons.
Because the separatists view the NC biggest threat. It isn’t New Delhi or Islamabad.


(Greater Kashmir Op-Ed Page, July 24, 2008)

LAKHS PRAY FOR FREEDOM

ZULFIKAR MAJID
Srinagar, Aug 22: At least a million people today prayed for freedom of Kashmir in the historic Eidgah ground here, affirming their support to the united pro-freedom leadership.
It seemed that all roads of the Valley were leading to Eidgah, with thousands of vehicles including trucks, buses, mini-buses, sumos, cars and motorcycles ferrying people, who were holding black and green flags, from different parts of the Valley.
The Eidgah chalo call was given by Coordination Committee led by two factions of Hurriyat Conference besides various pro-freedom parties, social, religious and trade organizations.
This show of strength by the pro-freedom leaders came after the march to Muzaffarabad on August 11, Pampore on August 16 and the rally outside the United Nations office here on August 18.
Senior leaders- Syed Ali Shah Geelani, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and Muhammad Yasin Malik- couldn’t address the people due to the breakdown of public address system.
However, speaking loudly from the podium, Mirwaiz Umar appealed the people to observe complete strike on Saturday and Sunday, followed by Lal Chowk chalo march on Monday.
“People of Kashmir have given their verdict that they want freedom. They have spoken what they stand for. People have only one voice and one dream, which is complete Azadi,” Mirwaiz said, amid massive sloganeering by the people.
“Today’s show has shown that nation is united. This unprecedented show of unity would lead us to our destination. Leadership is united and so are the people. Today, we have not assembled here under the banner of any sect, political party or region, but under the banner of La Illaha Ilallah Muhammad Rasool Allah (SAW),” he added.
He appealed the people to show the same unity in future also. “Be united and don’t give those people any space in your ranks who want to create confusion,” he appealed.
Talking to Greater Kashmir, Geelani termed today’s gathering as biggest in the history of Kashmir. “This was the biggest gathering in the history of Kashmir and it conveys that people want complete freedom. The writing on the wall is clear for India that people of Kashmir want Azadi. It was a referendum.”
“If India claims to be largest democracy of the world, it should open its eyes, withdraw its troops from Kashmir and give Kashmiris right to self-determination,” he said.
Geelani alleged that state’s role in Jammu and Kashmir is discriminatory. “In Jammu, police shows restraint. But here they kill. Administration has been communalized,” he alleged.
The veteran pro-freedom leader congratulated the people of Kashmir for their steadfastness. He appealed UN Secretary General, Ban Ki Moon, to intervene in the state immediately. “Especially, we appeal to UN to intervene in Jammu where Muslims are being targeted by the Hindu fanatics.”
He appealed the people to maintain discipline during the rallies. “People should maintain utmost discipline during the rallies and especially near the podium,” he said.
Both Geelani and Mirwaiz said that future programme would be announced on Monday at Lal Chowk ‘where a peaceful sit-in would be held.’
This was for the first time in the history of Kashmir that lakhs of people joined the Friday congregation at Eidgah, where only Eid prayers were being held in the past.
Before offering Friday prayers, the pro-freedom leaders visited the grave of Shiekh Abdul Aziz who was killed in police firing on August 11 at Chahal (Uri) while leading a march towards Muzaffarabad.
JKLF chairman, Muhammad Yasin Malik, who reached Eidgah early alongwith thousands people was seen addressing the crowd before the prayers.
Other leaders who were present at Eidgah included Amir-e-Jamaat-e-Islami Sheikh Muhammad Hassan, Jamiat-e-Ihlihadees president Moulana Showkat, senior pro-freedom leaders Shabir Ahmad Shah, Nayeem Ahmad Khan, Moulana Abbas Ansari, Aga Syed Hassan, Azam Inqalabi, Shahid-ul-Islam, Saleem Nanaji, Javed Ahmad Mir, Mushtaq-ul-Islam, Shakeel Ahmad Bakshi.
Meanwhile, most masjids in the city and its outskirts remained closed as people joined the Eidgah Friday congregation.
For the first time after the 1993 siege of Hazratbal shrine, Friday prayers were not offered at the holiest Muslim shrine in Kashmir. The Hazratbal masjid houses the relic of Prophet Muhammad (SAW). Reports said that the Imam of the shrine had gone along with the people to offer prayers at Eidgah.
Almost all the masjids, including the Gaw Kadal masjid, where thousands offer prayers every Friday, in the civil lines and other areas in the city remained closed.
However, Friday prayers were held in some masjids in the civil lines but the number of prayers was very less. After the prayers, these people also left for Eidgah.
Similar situation was witnessed in other masjids in the outskirts.
Hurriyat (G) clarifies
Hurriyat Conference (G) leader, Masarat Alam, today said the people should not get confused by the posters issued by the Tehreek-e-Hurriyat, which call for a march to Eidgah on August 24. “This time we urge people to follow only the decisions of the coordination committee,” he said.
Reports said the party had printed the posters for a rally before the unity efforts between the Hurriyat factions, but their distribution created some confusion. “There would be no Eidgah chalo on August 24, but Lal Chowk chalo on August 25.”
Alam said the party has been receiving information from various districts that Army had barred people from visiting Eidgah on Friday. “We strongly condemn such actions,” he said.

Geelani, Mirwaiz, Malik released

ZULFIKAR MAJID
Srinagar, Sep 1: Eight days after their arrest and no whereabouts, three top pro-freedom leaders – chairmen of Hurriyat Conference factions, Syed Ali Shah Geelani and Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and JKLF chief Muhammad Yasin Malik– were released Monday evening.
Sources said that Geelani was brought to his Hyderpora residence Monday evening by a posse of policemen and then shifted to Sher-e-Kashmir Institute of Medical Sciences (SKIMS) for medical checkup.
Confirming release of Geelani, Inspector General Police, Kashmir Range, S M Sahai said, “We have released Geelani,” Sahai said.
Director SKIMS, Dr Abdul Hamid Zarger confirmed that Geelani was brought to the hospital for a checkup. “He was brought here at 7:30 pm and we would keep him under observation for a day or so and then we can assess his health condition,” Dr Zarger told Greater Kashmir.
A top medico in SKIMS on the condition of anonymity said that Geelani was suffering from some cardiac problems.
Mirwaiz’s secretary, advocate Shahid-ul-Islam confirmed that Mirwaiz has reached his Nigeen residence. “He reached home at 7:30 pm,” he said.
JKLF spokesman, Ashraf-Ibn-Salam said that officially it has been announced that Malik has been released. “But he hasn’t reached home till 8:30 pm,” he said.
While Geelani was arrested from his Hyderpora residence ahead of Lal Chowk Chalo march on the intervening night of August 24 and 25, Mirwaiz was arrested same night from his Nigeen residence. Malik was arrested at Maisuma on August 25 morning when he tried to march towards Lal Chowk.
There was no news about Hurriyat (M) leader Shabir Ahmad Shah, Hurriyat (G) leaders Muhammad Ashraf Sehrai, Masrat Alam Bhat, Ayaz Akbar, Dukhtran-e-Milat chief, Syeda Asiya Andrabi, Islamic Students League leader, Shakeel Bakshi, Tehreek-e-Hurriyat leader, Mejraj-ud-Din Kalwal and other arrested leaders in the past one-week.
While Asiya and Kalwal have been already booked under Public Safety Act (PSA) – that provides for detention without trial for up to two years – sources said that Shabir Shah and Ashraf Sehrai were booked under PSA on Monday.
Andrabi and Shah have been instrumental in promoting unity between two factions of Hurriyat, who had parted ways in 2003.
The crackdown on pro-freedom leadership came in the backdrop of their proposed Lal Chowk Chalo march on August 24.
Earlier, pro-freedom leaders had shown their strength by mobilizing lakhs of people in the march to Muzaffarabad on August 11, Pampore on August 16, rally outside the United Nations office here on August 18 and Eidgah on August 22.

KASHMIR CRIES FOR FREEDOM

ZULFIKAR MAJID
Srinagar, August 18: Undeterred by reports of curfew in the morning, lakhs of people from all over Kashmir converged in the TRC Ground in the city’s high security zone on Monday to demand freedom.
Pledging to take the ongoing movement to its logical conclusion, pro-freedom leadership across the board Monday urged intervention of international community and asked New Delhi to ‘read the writing on the wall’ and solve the Kashmir issue according to the aspirations of the people of the Jammu and Kashmir. People from all walks of life and all towns and villages of the Valley reached the TRC Ground and upto 11 am the ground was full with the people. Outside the ground, lakhs more were on the roads.
The leadership pledged before the people, “Till we get freedom, this movement would continue. We also urge the international community, particularly United Nations, to intervene in Kashmir.”
First to address the mammoth gathering was Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and JKLF chairman Muhammad Yasin Malik, who reached early. Mirwaiz and Malik asked New Delhi to accept the demands of people including the right to self-determination.
For near about 10 minutes people responded with zest to slogans raised by Mirwaiz including “we want freedom, hamari mandi, Rawalpindi.”
Mirwaiz read aloud the memorandum which was to be presented to UN office, seeking right to self-determination and then spelled out demands including opening of Muzaffarabad and other trade routes with AJK and Pakistan, revocation of draconian laws including Armed Forces Special Powers Act and release of all detainees.
He said government of India should comply with these demands of people and should show eagerness in addressing the larger Kashmir issue. People during the speech were calmly listening and responding and applauding him. Flanked by other leaders, Mirwaiz said resolution of Kashmir issue was must. “Till New Delhi won’t settle the Kashmir issue according to the aspirations of Kashmiris, peaceful struggle would continue.”
“Our struggle is peaceful. We urge the Indian people who believe in humanity and democracy to assess how brutally its troops are killing unarmed Kashmiri protesters,” he urged.
“Marches to Pampore and UN office, which remained peaceful despite the participation of lakhs of people, has made it clear to the world that the people of Kashmir are peace loving,” Mirwaiz maintained
Hurriyat Conference (G) chairman, Syed Ali Shah Geelani, who arrived later, urged UN secretary general Ban Ki Moon to personally visit Kashmir and “see what people of Kashmir want?”
“Our demand is that Indian troops should leave the state and UN troops should be deployed here and then plebiscite should be held. When this demand is met, all the problems would be solved,” Geelani said.
The veteran pro-freedom leader urged the UN to send its troops to “protect the Muslims of Jammu and Kashmir, who are being killed by the Indian troops.”
He also urged the international media to visit Kashmir to highlight the plight of the people. “Indian media is part of war machinery. They aren’t projecting the facts. We urge media from USA, Europe and other countries to come here and see what people of J&K want. They want right to self-determination.”
Geelani urged the people to carry forward the movement on three points. “One is Islam as a complete way of life, second is complete freedom from the clutches of India and unity on the lines of Islam. You have to pledge that you would work on these three points peacefully,” he urged. Lakhs responded with “certainly.”
He welcomed the resignation of Pakistani president, General Parvez Musharaf saying, “I want to give you a happy news that the man who caused major damage to Kashmir cause during the past eight years has gone as he was rejected by the people of Pakistan. Pakistani General (Musharaf) did extensive damage to Kashmir cause, Pakistan and Islamic community. But I remind it to the Pakistani rulers that Pakistan has been created in the name of Islam. Socialism, Secularism and Nationalism won’t work in Pakistan.”
“We are Pakistanis and Pakistan is ours because we are tied with the country through Islam,” he roared, as the crowd cheered him and chanted, “Hum Pakistani hain, Pakistan hamara hai” (We are Pakistanis, Pakistan is ours).
Yasin Malik in his speech vowed that the peaceful struggle would continue till “we achieve complete freedom.”
“The sea of people has assembled here despite restrictions by the government. Everybody present here is demanding plebiscite. It is a people’s revolution and it would lead us to complete freedom,” Malik said.
“Our united demand is opening of all trade routes with AJK, Pakistan and safety of Muslims of Jammu from the communal forces,” he demanded.
Amid slogans like “Issi saal lenge azadi, Uss paar be lange, iss paar be lange, azadi”, the JKLF chairman pledged that they wouldn’t allow anybody to break the unity.
“Our path and goal has to be one,” he vowed.
Malik said the people of the state will not allow anybody to weaken the struggle for which more than a lakh have sacrificed their lives.
Senior Hurriyat leaders Shabir Ahmad Shah and Nayeem Ahmad Khan also addressed the people.
“We pledge today that till we won’t get freedom, this movement would continue,” they pledged.
Earlier, hundreds of trucks and buses overflowing with protesters - some sitting on roofs and hanging out of windows arrived at the venue from Srinagar and all districts and tehsils besides other far-flung and remote areas.
The TRC Ground, Moulana Azad road, Residency road, Dalgate road, Lal Chowk and other adjoining areas were full of people, who were raising pro-freedom, anti-India and pro-Pakistan slogans.
Locals were distributing food, fruits and water among the processionists.