Whosoever is interested in resolution of Kashmir issue must come forward for a dialogue with New Delhi as there are no tailor-made solutions available. Prime Minister of India invited Hurriyat Conference for a dialogue, but thereafter you can’t expect every time invitation from a PM. State Congress president and Union Water Resources Minister, PROF SAIF-UD-DIN SOZ in an exclusive interview with GK senior correspondent ZULFIKAR MAJID talks about demilitarization, ensuing assembly polls and has a word of advice for Hurriyat to participate in the forthcoming election to show their representative character.
Q: As state Congress president, how do you view the present political crisis in the state?
It was an unfortunate situation. It shouldn’t have happened. You must know that best of the governor rule is hardly comparable to any civilian government, whatever its nature. A bad civilian government is far better than competent governor rule. Mr. N.N Vohra is a competent person and a very good administrator. But I can tell you that governor rule creates barrier. When there is civilian government, people meet ministers. There is fundamental difference between the two administrations.
Q: Is it a political crisis?
No it is nothing new. But governor rule could have been avoided.
Q: Who is to be blamed?
Withdrawal of support (by PDP) was deplorable. But I don’t want to sound bitter. It was their choice, they did it. I call it deplorable because differences could be sorted out. They had given deadline of June 30 and there was no point withdrawing on 29th. It was unfortunate. But now we have to move forward as we can’t live in bitterness in political arena.
Q: Mainstream parties over the years claimed that normalcy in the state has returned and also claimed credit for that. Recent uprising has dented those claims to an extent. What is Congress’s view now?
Kashmir is normal with patches of abnormalcy. It happens. The kind of situation that was on ground after land question blunted the process of normalcy for a period of time. But now, normalcy has returned. I addressed several rallies in Kupwara district. People want redressal of their problems.
It isn’t kind of turmoil what we witnessed in 1990’s. But recent uprising against the request of the Shrine Board for land certainly created some uproar.
Q: During SASB land transfer issue, Congress initially stated that no decision has been taken to allot the land? Why did you later on change your stand?
Neither had land been transferred, nor had that been cancelled. There was a request from SASB and that was in process— that land would be granted for raising temporary structures. So when people thought it wasn’t correct, state government decided to give facilities and amenities to the yatries themselves. Governor also felt that and withdrew the request as state government was in a far better position to provide facilities to the yatries than the SASB.
Q: But there was a cabinet decision in this regard which was later withdrawn?
Rightly so, because people found this was unusual and wasn’t needed. Government considered it and simultaneously the request of the governor that since the government can offer the facilities in far better way, so he withdrew the earlier request. When the request was withdrawn, earlier cabinet decision became redundant.
Q: After the recent uprising, the activities of mainstream political parties have come to a standstill. Reasons?
I addressed several big rallies in Kupwara (on Saturday). The response of people was massive. So I don’t think there has been much difference. Yes, I admit recent agitation ascended the temper. Who will say no? But now everything is on track. People want their problems addressed.
Q: Will there be any effect of election boycott of Hurriyat?
I don’t think people will boycott elections. In villages there won’t be any boycott. What will people of Kashmir get out of boycott? We had so many boycotts, nothing positive happened.
Q: Often both state and central government statements suggest that there are few hundred militants present in the state but still there is huge presence of troops. Do you advocate for demilitarization?
I’ve never used this expression, demilitarization. Those people who raise this issue never explain what they mean by the demilitarization. We must know that Army general will never consult any politician about where a Jawan has to be posted?
But in the meantime people like me have very vigorously been talking to Defense Ministry. So many reforms have already taken place. Rent of the land which Army is occupying has been raised thrice. So many places have been vacated. I raised the issue with Defence Ministry that school buildings, industrial estates must be vacated and barracks should be constructed for Army. So many places have been vacated.
Q: But do you think that presence of huge number of troops is needed to fight a few hundred militants?
That is the bigger question and not for me to answer. It is Pakistan-India question. Kashmir passed through long spell of armed militancy comparable to any worst situation in the world. So it was a kind of a war and the militancy was sponsored by the neighboring country. At this point of time I won’t say that Pakistan government is behind this now, because in Pakistan also it has impacted adversely. When it is totally peaceful, Army isn’t needed, but it isn’t so. Some people say this enormous Army is here. If India and Pakistan become friends, I’m sure there won’t be presence of troops.
Q: Do you mean that Army isn’t here fighting militants only, but it is the threat of Pakistan?
Whole world knows that militancy in Kashmir was sponsored by Pakistan. I won’t deny that local support was there. It was a situation of war. Now in that context it isn’t for me to say how much of Army should be there nor can neighboring country say you have this much of Army. It is question of security.
Q: Who represents the people of J&K, separatists or mainstream parties?
Those who are in the assembly or in the government, I accept them as representatives. But simultaneously Hurriyat Conference speaks for the people in their own right. They also represent a shade of the opinion. But if they say they have to represent people and raise voice on their behalf, whole world will say there is only one test. You have to accept the elections. Somebody can go to Lal Chowk and say he/she is the leader, but mere assertions can’t make anybody a leader.
Q: But Hurriyat says they will participate in elections if it is held under the supervision of United Nations or any other credible international organization.
That is not possible. You must know what is pragmatic. When elections are fair you can’t merely say UN will come forward. Even UN isn’t interested in that. It can never happen to my mind elections would be held under UN supervision.
I don’t advice Hurriyat and others to participate in the elections. It is for them to decide. But If they want to be accepted as sole representatives, the test is vote.
Q: Has Hurriyat Conference any role to play in the resolution of Kashmir issue?
Why not. I was a votary of a very vigorous dialogue between Hurriyat and New Delhi. I was instrumental in that at some point of time. So they must talk to New Delhi and vice-versa. They must talk to Prime Minister or anybody on behalf of him because dialogue is the only solution of problem. Politics under the shadow of gun is suicidal to the society.
Q: One faction of Hurriyat was engaged in talks with New Delhi for four years. Now they say that talks yielded nothing as New Delhi isn’t ready to show any flexibility.
See, Prime Minister invited them. But thereafter you can’t expect every time invitation from PM. Through you I convey it to Hurriyat that there are sometimes complaints that dialogue process wasn’t vigorous. But it wasn’t because of India; it was because of Pakistan. Prime Minister of India at one point of time was willing to go to Pakistan. But General Mushraf at that time suggested to the PM that you please don’t come for now because Pakistan unfortunately got into a situation of turmoil, confrontation between judiciary and executive. So we never imagined it can snowball into a major deadlock.
There was instability writ large on the horizons of Pakistan. So it adversely affected the dialogue process. Yet the dialogue was going on very slowly. It wasn’t suspended completely.
Q: Do you offer an invitation to Hurriyat for a fresh round of talks with New Delhi?
Who am I to offer an invitation? But Prime Minister of India invited them at one point of time. So I say whosoever is interested in resolution of crisis must come forward for a dialogue. There are no tailor-made solutions available as it will evolve out of dialogue and dialogue is the only basis which they have to accept. Gun is no solution.
Q: Does Congress accept Kashmir as a disputed territory?
You may call it disputed or not but the point is mainstream has to get strengthened. As long as there is separatism, there is political imbroglio. Yes there are issues between India and Pakistan, who can deny it. It is a political stalemate, imbroglio which has to be resolved, people have to come and join the mainstream. Whatever issues have to be raised, must be raised with New Delhi. India may not agree on a tripartite dialogue, but bilateral dialogue between New Delhi and Islamabad, New Delhi and Srinagar. Dialogue can go on both axis at a same time and there is no harm in that.
Q: Talking of elections, have you finalized the list of candidates for the upcoming polls?
Not yet, we shall have a committee. But there is no big dispute about candidates. We know our candidates on fingertips.
Q: What will be Congress’s manifesto for 2008 elections?
Peace and development and restoration of normalcy are big goals and we shall work for them.
Q: Do you advocate for autonomy to J&K?
I’ve been champion of autonomy and that stand I’ve not given up. But when I talked about autonomy, it was my slogan. It was painful situation in my heart and mind to see Kashmiris being killed. I became conscious of it in 1990 when some people wanted merger with Pakistan, others wanted independence. I imagined I must work for Kashmir. Achievable goal was autonomy.
But today, I’ve a bigger goal than autonomy. I want a rigorous dialogue between India and Pakistan, between New Delhi and Kashmir and that dialogue itself can lead to an acceptable solution. When parties talk and talk and talk, they ultimately come to find a middle ground.
Q: Will Congress enter into a coalition with NC before or after the polls? Recently you talked about it.
No, I was misinterpreted because those people who heard me didn’t know anything. I was quoting Bashir Bader’s couplet (Dushmani jam kar karo, par itni gunjaish rahe phir se jab hum dost ho jayen, tou sharmanda na ho). Then I quoted the example of Bakshi Sahib and Sheikh Sahib.
Today I want to tell you that in politics anything is possible. In politics there are no permanent enemies and no permanent friends.
Q: That means there is also chance of collaboration with your old ally PDP?
I had not that time meant PDP is out and Congress is going to NC. These things aren’t so simple. You have to have right arithmetic at right time. I’ll give my opinion to Sonia Gandhi at right time, so will other leaders. Today, I can’t see that PDP is in and NC is out or vice-versa. At this point of time I feel I must promote Congress to the best of my abilities.
Q: In the recent vote of confidence in Parliament both NC and PDP voted in favour of UPA government? Do you think both parties want to keep central Congress leadership happy?
It isn’t making happy anybody. It is a situation in which you have to select one party. They found they couldn’t go with NDA, so they went with democratic secular force. May be they also thought nuclear deal was in favor of country.
Q: When should the elections be held in the state?
On time. If not October, then November.
Q: Do you think situation is conducive for the elections in October or November?
That will be seen. Perhaps Jammu situation isn’t appearing good this time.
Q: Azad and you were claiming till the last moment that you have the required number in the Assembly. Then what went wrong?
Basic assurance came from Azad Sahib. He was confident and I was sharing his confidence. But it happens. Recently we showed we made numbers in Parliament. Earlier in 1999 BJP would say they had numbers, but they fell short by one.
Q: When former Chief Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad withdrew confidence motion in assembly, he said that members from opposition parties wished to vote in favour of Congress, but he doesn’t want to put them in trouble as they might have to go against the party whip. Who were those MLAs?
Nobody knows. Only Azad Sahib knows and this question can be put straight to him. We were confident, but numbers weren’t there.
Q: Which are the safe pockets of Congress in the state?
We are trying hard. But somebody will say that Congress is less acceptable and PDP or NC is more, I don’t think so. Many factors are there. The people of J&K will vote for sincere and honest candidates.
Q: In a recent interview with GK, NC president Omar Abdullah said that New Delhi wants to create one leader in every mohalla of Kashmir to create confusion. Your take on this?
He should mention one among those leaders.
Q: Prof Soz, the next CM of J&K?
I don’t have an answer to this question. It would be decided by the party legislature that time.
Q: Are you in the race?
It is party high command that decides and my ambitions remain under control.
Q: As union Water Resources Minister, what have you done to restore the glory of Dal, Wullar and other water bodies of Kashmir?
Water Resources ministry doesn’t have charge of lakes and rivers, so I couldn’t have done much. But as Environment minister earlier, I did get a project of Rs 300 crores for Dal. The whole money couldn’t be spent and whatever little money was there, it was misappropriated.
Actually it is a gigantic task. It can neither be done under court orders nor by government alone. Peoples’ involvement is needed.
(The interview is part of a series on mainstream and separatist leadership)
(Greater Kashmir Op-Ed Page, July 30, 2008)
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