I don’t believe in nothing or everything

Freedom struggles across the world have succeeded or failed. A host of factors determine the probability of success or failure. I believe in incremental approach. I've no doubt about the conviction and aspirations of our people as they have rendered exemplary sacrifices, but leadership is in desperate need of a workable strategy. Peoples Conference leader, Sajjad Gani Lone, in an exclusive interview with GK senior correspondent Zulfikar Majid

How do you view present uprising in the state?
The present uprising is a manifestation of the sentiment in its most profound form. Two distinctive features stand out. First it is a continuation of the struggle since 1947 and second it is a peaceful movement, wherein the level of sentiment, emotions and involvement of the people of Kashmir have peaked. Irrespective of how it started, it is way towards resolution of Kashmir issue.

What for lakhs of people were on streets? Was it because of land transfer controversy, economic blockade or any other reason?
It is simple and straightforward. They are demanding Azadi. They are demanding secession from India and resolution of Kashmir issue.

Is Azadi or secession from India achievable?
Freedom struggles across the world have succeeded or failed. A host of factors determine the probability of success or failure. Two internal dimensions are important. The conviction and aspirations of the people to struggle and a capable leadership to direct the struggle towards a successful attainment of objective of liberation. I've no doubt about the conviction and aspirations of our people, they have rendered exemplary sacrifices. I'm afraid I can't say the same for the caliber and capability of the leadership.

Whom would you blame for present crisis?
It is all rooted in not resolving Kashmir issue.

So you mean to say that land transfer controversy and economic blockade aren't the reasons?
Things sometimes act as catalysts. In 1987, you had rigged elections. That wasn't the cause of 1990 movement, but it acted as a catalyst. It inspired the people to go on the original cause. Similarly, this shrine board land transfer controversy catalyzed and inspired the people. It was a timely colonial reminder.

Did it provide impetus to the ongoing "freedom" struggle?
Much needed fresh impetus. Not to the freedom struggle, but to the people. Freedom struggle was always there.

How do you view recent agreement between government and Sangrash Samiti?
It is a non-issue and doesn't matter. I never believe that Sangrash Samiti was any organization running the agitation. It was the state agitation, as they wanted to give a perception that there isn't only one view in J&K state, but there is a counter view also. It was run by the state and was ended by the state. So I don't think we should waste our time discussing the merits of that agreement.

So you mean than land is no issue.
Land is an issue, but at proper time. As on date resolution of Kashmir is the main issue.

In your view what is the solution now?
My vision of solution is laid out in detail in our vision document titled Achievable Nationhood. I stand by it and I feel it is most relevant today. Leadership in Kashmir is in desperate need of strategy. Hartals, protests, sacrifices are means to an end. They cannot be an end in themselves. We need a mission statement, a clear demarcation of short term, medium term and long-term objectives. In the short term, we could chart out what I call achievable issues. In medium term, we need to force the Indian state to come up with a formal, structural, time bound dialogue process involving India, Pakistan and Kashmiris. And in the long term, would strive for a final resolution.

What is the meaning of "opt out option" in your "Achievable Nationhood"?
Since J&K is not ethnically homogenous and there is small amount of heterogeneity. If some areas feel that their interests aren't better suited being part of J&K, they should opt out. We believe that regions can't be allowed to opt out because regions aren't ethnically homogenous. If opt out option is allowed, a small area spread over two and half districts might decide to opt out. I think, it would make their lives better and would solve there as well as our problems.

On May 25, 2008 in a seminar you talked about realism. Where does the realism stand now?
It is much more relevant now than when I said it. Our problem is that we live in a world of disinformation. People try to confuse realism with dilution of objectives. I believe in incremental approach. I don't believe in everything or nothing approach. When I say realism, step-by-step approach it doesn't mean, we give up dream of liberation. Realism is an insurance against ending up with nothing. We practice realism for the self in our daily lives, why not practice realism for the nation.

Do you think implementation of UN resolution and right to self-determination is still valid and practicable?
In terms of implementation no. But in terms of them being an indicator that a dispute exists, the are most important, as they are the only proof you have that it is the disputed territory.
I will put it in this way. The context of UN resolution is much more important than the content of the UN resolution. The content might have weakened, but the context is very very strong even today.

You were accused of fielding proxy candidates in 2002 assembly elections.
These were allegations made with mala fide political intentions by our ideological detractors. There were and are people in the separatist movement including my late father (Abdul Gani Lone) who fought elections and took oath under Indian constitution. I've been accused of fielding or facilitating proxies, but I've never taken oath under Indian constitution. Those who have taken oath under Indian constitution have shown no remorse and I've to be eternally slandered by virtue of an accusation. Let us have a debate who facilitated PDP victory, who supported Communists in 2002 elections. Anyway let bygones be bygones. I don't want a new controversy.
The truth is that in 2002, I had just lost my father to bullets, I was new in politics and an emotional son grieving the loss of his father was unable to defend himself. I mixed politics and emotions. The greatest shock was that elders who I had addressed as uncles throughout my life and who I had thought would rally around their dead colleague's son were the ones raising the pitch. This paradox will always confront me. People who do not have the moral courage to fend for their dead colleague's, inexperienced son should never be expected to fend for the nation.

Will Peoples Conference launch election boycott campaign in future?
We will go by the collective decision of the separatist parties. We won't take any unilateral decision. Whatever separatist leadership decides, we would abide by that.

During recent protest rallies, most of the separatist leaders were leading from the front. You were not seen anywhere in those rallies. Reasons.
Movements have multidimensional facets. One has to address rallies, organize protests etc. Equally important is the message that you want to convey to the international community and to the people of the country, which has subjugated you. It is a politician's dream to be on the front-pages addressing mammoth rallies. I'm sure I can do that whenever I want to. This time I sacrificed it all and instead to the best of my ability tried to defend my nation in TV debates and media. I'm proud I never used the word "I" and instead used the word "WE". In TV debates, I forgot about the self and instead focused on the nation.

If given a chance again, you would like to part of these rallies?
Why not? Our people were there. People belonging to our party were there as it was people's movement. Our spirit was there.

What about unification of Hurriyat Conference and other pro-freedom leadership.
I'm not against unity and nobody perhaps can be against it. But we have to see what the objective is. Is objective unity? Is objective sitting together and getting ourselves photographed or is objective that we force the Indian state to deliver? If unity can bring in a level of mental and ideological cohesion that we can force India to deliver, then it is the best thing and I support it. Unity has to be on ideological grounds. Unless we do not address the main ideological parameters that divide us it is a futile exercise and bound to result in short term gain and long-term pain. Unity should not be for the sake of unity but for the sake of forcing India to deliver.
Having said that, what we do need is excellent levels of communication between all separatist outfits. And one of the most important thing is that none of the separatist groups should be allowed the luxury of hitting out at each other publicly.

Do you think a united Hurriyat would be more effective in highlighting the K-issue in international forums?
I don't think the separatists were ever divided. The broad objective has always been the same that we want our land to be liberated. Differences were whether it should be a one step process or a multi step process. Please read history. Unity and a united platform are utopian concepts and do not exist in the real world. Disputes per se are not irresolvable. Presence or absence of statesmanship, vision and courage of the leadership to the make distinction between the desirable and the achievable are the most important variables, which will make the Kashmir conflict resolvable. Lack of unity is a fig leaf.

Separatists frequently call for strikes, which affect common masses. Do you support strike calls?
I do not subscribe to the concept of frequent strikes. Incidentally there is no evidence of strikes in Islamic history. Neither is there any significant correlation between strikes and successful liberation movements across the world. Striking work emerged mainly as a communist concept where the daily waged worker wants to inflict economic costs on to the capitalist owners. I fail to understand who we are punishing here and how does India get affected if we boycott economic activity and work. I'm sure the Indian state must be feeling elated when Kashmiri children do not go to school, the sick can't go to doctor, the daily waged lose their daily wages etc. If you look at a hartal or a curfew, anatomy of the two is almost same. One hartal or two hartals in a year, I can understand. If we don't allow our children to go to the schools, where will be the human resources to make it a great nation which we dream of? It is a self-inflicted wound, which desperately needs a re-think.

OK, do you think that gun played a role in highlighting Kashmir issue and has it any role now?
Gun played a role and nobody can deny it. When gun came here there was a concept of social sanctity attached to it and it is attached even today. People didn't see young men wielding the gun as terrorists or criminals, but as saviors and liberators of the nation. I think they aroused the conscience and were pivotal in rallying the sentiment of people peaking at that time.
Now that the non-violent movement has come on to the fore, I wouldn't say that they are irrelevant. But I think as has been suggested by some statements of (militant) commanders that we allow more space to non-violent movement, because as on date it is more palatable for rest of the world.

In a recent interview with GK, state Congress president Prof Saif-ud-Din Soz said that if separatists claim to be representatives of the people, they should show it in elections. Are you people ready to fight elections to show your representative character?
I'm sad that Soz Sahib has said it. He is a Kashmiri and he should understand it that it is an Indian establishment's old excuse. People who have any doubt about separatists' representative character should have seen the people on the streets.

And if elections are held under UN supervision.
Any day we would be ready for that, but not under the Indian constitution.

Do you think that mainstream parties like NC and PDP have a role to play in resolution of K-issue?
They certainly have a role to play. When I talked about short term objectives they could convey to the Indian state that they will not fight elections, until short term demands are met. That is the role they have to play. But the problem with them is that they are confused. On one hand they want to please India and on other they want to please Kashmiris and the separatists. So they end up confusing the whole issue. They have a very big role to play, if they want to. They shouldn't fight elections, till India accepts some demands like opening of all routes with Pakistan and AJK, let the army go back to barracks, cases against Kashmiris be withdrawn, let all the Kashmiri prisoners be released and Kashmir be declared as economic zone. There are a lot of measures, which they could facilitate for this movement, if they are real Kashmiris and really feel for Kashmir.

NC president Omar Abdullah recently in an interview with GK said that he has no problems in sharing any platform with the separatists. Do you hold the same view about the mainstream parties?
Irrespective of his ideology as an individual I see him as a very dynamic politician and was particularly impressed by a recent interview of his. Given his exposure, articulation and cosmopolitan image, he could be an asset to the movement if only he decides to resist the temptation of the perks of power.

So that means you are ready to share table with mainstreams for resolution of K-issue?
I've absolutely no problem sitting with anybody. Nobody is above board and there are no holy cows here. We cannot afford to have Kashmiris countering Kashmiris. Nobody is perfect. We have ideological differences with the mainstream parties but I am sure that there can be an overlap over a range of issues and maybe the intensity of the sentiment bridges the ideological gulf in the future. If liberation is an objective it is imperative that an inclusive Kashmiri voice is amplified.

What is the realistic solution of Kashmir now?
To be very honest, I'll still vouch for my "Achievable Nationhood" as one of the ways to resolve Kashmir. Unless and until you don't have an interim solution, which will finally evolve into a final resolution wherein India dimension, Pakistan dimension and the independence dimension are not addressed, I don't think you can reach to any solution.
Short-term solution is to allow Kashmiris travel freely to Pakistan and AJK. Travel should be a matter of right and not a matter of subservience to the security agencies for issuance of documents. Pakistan could give them the rights which they give to their own citizens so that any Kashmiri who wants to live their, work their, conduct business should be allowed to do so. We should have identical political systems in AJK and this part of Kashmir. An economic union of of J & K and AJK should come into existence. The said economic union would be a single unified economic territory carved out of two distinct political and geographical territories. This economic union would be a distinct customs territory with its own distinct economic laws. Goods grown or produced in this economic union should have duty free access into Pakistan and India. Cross border institutions should be allowed to evolve unhindered. All draconian laws sjould be repealed and Indian armed forces garrisoned away from civilian areas.

For the past some time, New Delhi has been saying that it is willing for cross LoC trade, but Pakistan is not.
Who is interested in these trucks going for trade, which won't cross even one or two million dollars worth of trade? I do not know the Paksitani viewpoint. But Pakistan had come up with a host of proposals and I feel that india is selctively picking up one issue and more intersted in tokenism rather than real change. It is good if Pakistan refuses to be a party to tokenism. LOC trade for us means free flow of goods, services and people. Or put it simply allow do away with primitive era and give civilized era a chance to evolve.

Then what is the solution for economic blockade of Valley?
For trade, you need to travel and build contacts. You can't do trade when you aren't allowed to move freely. Let people go and come. I see the Muzzafarabad as the future trade route. That will put an end to all the threats of economic blockade by hooligans.