Nothing less than the right to self-determination

If all the parties of Kashmir dispute reach a consensus, then independent Kashmir is also a possibility. But nothing less than right to self-determination is acceptable to us and accession to Pakistan would be conditional. Syed Ali Shah Geelani in an exclusive interview with GK senior correspondent ZULFIKAR MAJID.

How do you view present crisis in the state?

Sometimes our enemy does something which harms us in short term, but in the long term that is beneficial. Same happened here. The state government transferred 800 kanals of forestland to Shrine Board on the instructions of New Delhi. But the grace of Almighty Allah it awakened people of Kashmir and hundreds and thousands of people are on the streets demanding freedom.

Did it provide impetus to the ongoing freedom struggle?

Definitely. Any nation who wants to achieve freedom should first realize that we are slaves. When people realize that their life, property, honor and dignity isn’t safe at the hands of oppressor, then people fight for their rights.

Whom would you blame for the present crisis?

If you look at the history of J&K you will come to know that the leadership has always ditched people of J&K. On July 13, 1931, our 22 people sacrificed life while fighting against Dogra rule. In 1932, Muslim Conference came into existence to safeguard these sacrifices. But in 1938, MC was divided and National Conference created. The excuse made to divide MC was that it represents only Muslims while Hindus are also living in the state. But that was not justified, as in that period government was of Hindus. They were in administration, police and army. They had no problems. It was the conspiracy of Indian National Congress. They knew that India would achieve freedom from British and after that there should be someone who would give Kashmir to them and they created Sheikh Muhammad Abdullah.

But my question is regarding present crisis, not the past.

See, if you will forget your past, you will fall in quagmire where from you can never come out. Past has direct impact on the present. Had we not been occupied in 1947, there would have been no wars between India and Pakistan. No country would have acquired atom bomb and beg before USA. Whatever present crisis we have, it was because of the past. When militancy broke out in 1990, it created fear among Indian troopers in Kashmir, which no one can deny. There was sense of upper hand. But in 1996, Farooq Abdullah came forward and became Chief Minister with the help of Army. There is no difference between Kuka Parray and Farooq Abdulla. Kuka Parray was created by the Army and Farooq Abdullah was also made Chief Minister by the Army.

Do you mean that NC is responsible for every problem of Kashmiris?

NC is the main accused and is responsible for every misery of Kashmiris. I’ve said it in the assembly before Sheikh Abdullah.

But you always say that NC, PDP, Congress and other mainstream parties are equally responsible for the present mess?

Yes, all are responsible, but NC figures first

When Action Committee Against Land Transfer was formed, it announced that after SASB land transfer issue will be sorted and that it would fight against what it called illegal occupation of 8 lakh kanals of land under Army? What happened later?

Their job was done. Rest of the issues are political in nature. ACALT had representatives from Traders Federation, chamber of commerce and they can’t interfere in political issues. For basic issue, political parties will take care. Regarding Hurriyat unification proposal, what is the latest on that? Talks are on. Three-member committee from both the sides is discussing unification proposals.

Is there any timeframe?

There is no timeframe. Our stand is based on principles. Till people of J&K aren’t given right to self-determination, our struggle would continue. Outside this, accepting any proposal is to weaken our stand. From March 23, 1952, talks have been held on Kashmir at least 130 times. But it yielded nothing. If now we will start bilateral talks with India, it will be futile till it accepts disputed status of the state in clear terms. And till Disturbed Area Act and Armed Forces Special Powers Act aren’t revoked, we won’t talk to India.

Isn’t Hurriyat (M) ready to accept these conditions?

Our stand is based on the principles. In past they Hurriyat (M)) started bilateral talks with India and Pakistan without seeing the consequences. Without analyzing Musharaf’s four-point formula on Kashmir, they accepted that. In future, there should be no scope for bilateral talks and only right to self-determination should be the basis of our struggle.

Is there any proposal from Hurriyat (M) for the unity?

There are no proposals and they are ready to accept our formula. But we are yet to reach any conclusion.

Do you think a united Hurriyat would be more effective in highlighting the Kashmir issue in international forums?

If we will remain steadfast on our stand, it would be more important. Hurriyat was united for 10 years from 1993-2003, but couldn’t deliver properly.

What was the reason?

Ideological differences. Apart from that for 10-years India didn’t give much importance to united Hurriyat for 10 years. India’s attitude is rigid as they think they can occupy Kashmir by force always. In such a situation resistance forces have to take every step carefully.

From the past several elections, you have been vigorously launching boycott campaign. But several people say Geelani himself fought elections under Indian constitution?

I defend my decision before people and Alhamdullilah they accept it. When I fought elections, people used to vote for developmental issues. Congress, NC and other parties were strengthening Indian occupation in Kashmir. We used to make people aware that pro-India parties seek votes in the name of development, but in assembly they are working against Islam. Vote had same power that time which later bullet had. We fought elections on two principles. We projected Islam as way of life in comparison to Socialism, Communalism and Secularism. And during election campaign we used to highlight Kashmir issue. Even in assembly, I used to talk about the Kashmir dispute. We never talked of perks and privileges during election rallies and in the assembly, but about Kashmir issue.

Is Geelani Sahib receiving the pension as a former MLA and how would you defend it?

It is not your question, but created by Indian agencies. When a government employee retires, pension is his right. Similarly, an MLA who spends 10 or 15 years in assembly has the right to get pension.

But when you say no elections under constitution of India, how would you defend your decision?

(Smiles) You can say when cause is so sacred and high profile, then a person should prefer it over perks. For your information, I’ve stopped taking the pension from July 2005 despite it being my right.

Separatists frequently call for strikes which affect the common masses. How would you defend the decision of strike calls?

Nation, which is engaged in a struggle for freedom, has to give sacrifices. You can’t keep everything intact and also achieve freedom. When India was fighting against British, they too offered sacrifices and strike calls. In freedom struggles, sacrifices are a must. In the present situation, how can you show your resentment?

One more accusation against separatist leadership is that they didn’t allow their children to join militancy. Instead their children and relatives either are settled aboard or are holding good positions in the state government?

(Smiles) You can’t forcibly ask anybody to join militancy. Till someone isn’t willing to join, he can’t deliver.

You have been advocating for UN resolutions and tripartite talks but now even Pakistan says that UN resolutions are obsolete and there is need to show flexibility. Your comments?

Despite being a colony of America this time, Pakistan overall is an independent country. But we are salves and we have to decide what we need. We have to see what is best for Kashmiris. Pakistan or its leaders have no right to give roadmaps on Kashmir.

Pakistan Peoples Party co-chairman, Asif Ali Zardari recently stated that Pakistan should forget about Kashmir for a time being and leave it to next generations.

He can forget, but we can’t. We aren’t dependent on their roadmaps.

Greater Autonomy, United States of Kashmir, four-point formula, integral part of India, jugular vein of Pakistan, independent Kashmir. Between all these options do you have any other practical solution for the settlement of Kashmir issue?

Nothing less than right to self-determination which is peaceful, democratic, viable and very much a practicable solution. Everybody wants that J&K shouldn’t get divided on regional or religious lines. How is it possible? If you will solve Kashmir through talks, you have to apply give and take formula. In such a scenario state would be divided. To keep the geographical identity of the state intact, it is most essential that people of J&K should be given the right to self-determination. And we have time and again said it that we would accept the decision of majority.

New Delhi often accused that separatist movement in Kashmir is being sponsored by Islamabad?

Most of the times, they used to say it about me that I am pro-Pak. But I never accepted dictations from Pakistan. I’m not talking about General Musharaf regime only. When I was Chairman of APHC in 1998, Shamshad Sahib was Pakistan’s representative to UN, and he had given a statement that Pakistan represents the sentiments of people of J&K and whatever decisions they would take, Kashmiris would accept. When I was asked about it, I rejected the statement and said that we have not given them this right.

Of late, you have been talking about independent Kashmir as one of the options.

I’ve been saying it for long that accession with Pakistan would be conditional and it won’t be a merger. Similarly, I’ve said If India, Pakistan and people of J&K would be ready by consensus for independent Kashmir, we would accept it.

And what about third option in a plebiscite? In UN resolutions there is no mention of third option.

I said if all the parties of dispute reach a consensus, then only independent Kashmir is possible, not in a plebiscite as it would divide our vote.

In a recent interview with GK, state Congress president Prof Saif-ud-Din Soz said that if separatists claim to be representatives of the people, they should show it in elections. Are you people ready to fight elections to show your representative character?

He is wrong. Those who are elected in so-called elections aren’t genuine representatives. I fought election from 1971 to 1987. They were all rigged. There is no credibility of such elections through which people like Soz Sahib have been elected.

Who is the real representative of the people of J&K?

Separatists or mainstream parties? People who represent the aspirations and sentiments of Kashmiris are the real representatives. And I can say it with authority that those who represent sentiments for Azadi are the real representatives of the people of J&K.

Do you think that mainstream parties like NC and PDP have a role to play in resolution of K-issue?

They have no right, as they are the people who are responsible for the slavery of Kashmiris. Their role is only limited to participate in so-called elections.

NC president Omar Abdullah recently in an interview with GK said that he has no problems in sharing any platform with the separatists. Do you hold the same view about the mainstream parties?

What can they do to settle the K-issue? They accept accession to India as final solution. NC’s stand is autonomy and Mufti (Muhammad Sayeed) Sahib’s stand is status quo with Pakistan. Congress wants complete occupation. What can you achieve by sharing table with such people?

You are being considered hardliner and several people in India say that Hurriyat Conference (Mirwaiz) is the better group to talk to.

When they (Mirwaiz Hurriyat) went to New Delhi in 2004 for talks, I was addressing a rally at Chotta Bazar where a youth had been martyred. I announced it from there, if they can bring freedom, I would be the first one to welcome them. Today, again I say, if they can achieve freedom b y talking to India, we are with them. Ask them now, what they achieved by talking to India. Musharaf also talked to India, but achieved nothing. When militancy broke out in Kashmir in 1990, like most of the leaders that time you also supported gun. Do you think gun has any role to play now? Do you think we supported gun that time because of any compulsion. Our policy this time is also that gun is a factor in the solution of Kashmir issue. We have no direct contact with them (militants) and we won’t use gun in our struggle. Infact, our policy is that even we won’t use even a stone in our struggle. When some youth raised some provocative slogans like against India recently, I stopped them. We won’t use gun in our struggle, but gun is a factor till we won’t achieve freedom.

Has militant leadership any role to play? They have a definite role.

Their representation is a must in any solution.

Apart from implementation of UN resolutions, is there any other solution of Kashmir issue?

By consensus, if all the parties involved in the conflict agree for total independence of whole of the J&K including AJK. But the best solution is implementation of UN resolutions.

When Army and other security agencies are involved in human rights violations, you highlight them. But some people say when militants are involved in such violations you keep mum?

In the second edition of my book Qasia Dard, I’ve highlighted the wrongdoings of militants on 13 pages. Militants weren’t angles, they were also human beings and humans commit mistakes.